More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    I’ve just been reviewing my timeline of the divided Jewish monarchy and the Neo-Babylonian period. I decided to check for correlations of Egyptian and Assyrian rulers mentioned in the Bible that I had not previously considered at all (much less ‘tried’ to make fit a particular year). I was happy (though unsurprised) that no ‘adjustments’ were required.

    • Pharaoh Tirhakah (Taharqa) (2Ki 19:8, 9; Isa 37:8, 9) – Insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians ‘must’ be wrong. However, his reign falls precisely in the correct period for him to have attacked Assyria in the 14th nominal year of Hezekiah’s reign (prior to Hezekiah’s illness) in late 702 or early 701 BCE. Secular historians assign the event to 701 BCE.
    • Shalmaneser III – Insight (volume 2, page 907) claims that an inscription (in the Kurkh Monolith) associating a battle during the 6th year of Shalmaneser III with Ahab’s reign ‘must’ be mistaken. However, my chart correctly indicates the event to fall in 854 BCE, while Ahab was co-regent with Jehoram. Insight goes on to argue that it ‘must’ be wrong because 12 years later Shalmaneser III received tribute from Jehu. However, my chart shows that this, in 842 BCE, also fits perfectly.

    This is in addition to the correlations I had already established years ago (using only the Bible) with events in the reigns of Tyrian king Hiram I; Pharaohs Sheshonq I, Osorkon IV, Necho II and Apries; Assyrian kings Tiglath-pileser III, Shalmaneser IV, Sennacherib, Esar-Haddon, Ashurbanipal; and all the Neo-Babylonian kings.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Jeffro:

    Wow! This now has real estate on my desktop. Thanks.

    Take Care

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Very impressive chart, Jeffro!

    Per Josephus, a 70-year period of exile began in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II of the last deportees which were deported out of Egypt. In that case, Jerusalem fell some 4 years earlier and thus 74 years earlier than the return in the 1st of Cyrus. Zechariah 1 dated to year 2 of Darius the Mede ends 70 years since the destruction of Jerusalem, but the Jews are still in exile. Then in Zechariah 7 we find 70 years of mourning over Gedaliah ends in year 4 of Darius the Mede. This is perfectly consistent with Josephus who would not end the exile until another 2 years, thus in the 6th year of Darius the Mede. So if you are not according a full, 6-year rule of Darius the Mede prior to Cyrus taking over as the king of Babylon, then your timeline is not accurate according to the Bible. Darius the Mede must rule for 6 years to be Biblically accurate.

    Impressive timeline though. I was very impressed. Much better than the WTS' attempt at the divided-kingdom period rulershiips and co-rulerships!

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Interesting!

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    Per Josephus, a 70-year period of exile began in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II of the last deportees which were deported out of Egypt. In that case, Jerusalem fell some 4 years earlier and thus 74 years earlier than the return in the 1st of Cyrus. Zechariah 1 dated to year 2 of Darius the Mede ends 70 years since the destruction of Jerusalem, but the Jews are still in exile. Then in Zechariah 7 we find 70 years of mourning over Gedaliah ends in year 4 of Darius the Mede. This is perfectly consistent with Josephus who would not end the exile until another 2 years, thus in the 6th year of Darius the Mede. So if you are not according a full, 6-year rule of Darius the Mede prior to Cyrus taking over as the king of Babylon, then your timeline is not accurate according to the Bible. Darius the Mede must rule for 6 years to be Biblically accurate.

    Larsinger58, your alternative chronology is not consistent with either the Bible or any other source for the period. Josephus indicates not only that the temple was desolated for fifty years, but he also indicates a period of 182.5 years from the fall of Israel until the reign of Cyrus. Neither of these is compatible with your historical revisionism or your assertion that Darius the Mede is the same person as Darius I. Your interpretation of the 70 years mentioned by Zechariah as a period of exile is also wrong. This is also shown in the chart.

    Impressive timeline though. I was very impressed. Much better than the WTS' attempt at the divided-kingdom period rulershiips and co-rulerships!

    Thanks. The WTS only recognises co-regencies when there would otherwise be a very obvious contradiction in the biblical accounts. As a result they ignore some co-regencies that are less obvious (but not unidentifiable) when only considering the biblical data. These oversights create various problems in their chronology in addition to the '20 year gap'. For example, they create additional spurious gaps in the reigns in Israel from (according to their chronology) 803 to 793, and from 759 to 752.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    JEFFRO! Be honest now! You said: "Larsinger58, your alternative chronology is not consistent with either the Bible or any other source for the period."

    C'mon! You know better. Anyway, just to defend WHERE I'm getting this, I will give you a direct quote from Josephus. You like to make broad, sweeping statements without any specifics, so let's get into some specifics. My position is that you just don't know specifically what I have in reference and you're twisting and misinterpreting what you have read. So let's do this one point at a time. Here's my quote from Josephus:

    ANTIQUITIES 11:1:1. IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity."

    Okay. Let's just deal with this one quote for now. No need to compare it to any other reference, whether Josephus contradicts himself elsewhere or not. This is just what this reference is telling us, or more specifically, how I'm reading it, even if you are reading it differently.

    1. "Seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land..." This is the first of Cyrus which ends 70 years from the point the poor people were removed out of their land. Thus this is not a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem, but the last deportation. The last deportation is year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II.

    2. "Poor people." The reference to the "poor people" has to do with the poor people who were left in the land after the fall of Jerusalem. These are those who had ran down to Egypt and thus this is a reference to those who were deported out of Egypt back to Babylon, again confirming this is after the fall of Jerusalem and has to do with the last deportation, which is in harmony with Jer. 52:30 which references the last deportation was in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II.

    3. "Servitude seventy years." Okay, this is just telling us how long those last deported would serve Babylon after their deportation in year 23. The servitude of these specific "poor people" was 70 years. Thus I'm observing that at least in this reference that Josephus is telling us that those deported in year 23 served for 70 years which ended the 1st of Cyrus.

    4. "Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity..." The "posterity" of Nebuchadnezzar would be a reference to his sons and grandsons. Since I'm claiming that there was a 6-year rule by Darius the Mede, this would require that Darius the Mede was also a grandson of Nebuchadnezzar II for this to be true. Thus the official Neo-Babylonian kings would not have ended with the takeover by Darius the Mede, but the takeover by Cyrus after the 6-year rule of Darius the Mede.

    So that is where I'm getting this 70 years from the last deportation.

    So please just give me YOUR interpretation of thisspecific reference. Then we can build from here. THANKS, JEFF!!

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    So please just give me YOUR interpretation of thisspecific reference.

    Larsinger58, I have no interest in indulging you in your delusional alternative timeline. I will make this one comment... You are treating this passage as though it's 'scripture'. By this, I mean you're interpreting exactness in Josephus' words that simply isn't really there. (It's bad enough that you do this with 'actual' [so-called] 'scripture'.) The things you claim Josephus implies (but which are actually only your own suppositions) are contradicted by other direct statements from Josephus. It is abundantly clear from Josephus' later writings that he corrects some of the minor errors in Antiquities on which you rely for your flawed interpretation. You have made no attempt to explain the inconsistenty in your delusional alternative history in regard to the 182.5 years from the fall of Israel until Cyrus' decree.

  • notsurewheretogo
    notsurewheretogo

    Round 2 please!

  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    Thousands of people have for more than thousands of years tried to calculate dates and differences between all the kingdoms, Kings, rulers, in order to get a proven time schedule in the Bible. They have all failed. So even the WBTS. The only thing all these attempt’s show us is THAT THE BIBLE ITSELF IS INACCURATE, for doing this. The Bible itself cannot be read in this manner. It is a very old poetic book full of legends and sagas, from a time that we know very little about.

    Trying to use the Bible as un History book with facts, it’s like driving on I long and narrow ”dead end” street, ending up with a large roundabout , only offering you to go back on the same road again. When we use the bible, we can only use it to get information how ancient people thought. What they believed. How they act and hope that we have developed it bit from this stadium

    BUGBEAR

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    bugbear:

    Trying to use the Bible as un History book with facts, it’s like driving on I long and narrow ”dead end” street, ending up with a large roundabout , only offering you to go back on the same road again. When we use the bible, we can only use it to get information how ancient people thought.

    The Bible isn't a magical book free of errors, but some parts of it do present fairly reliable historical records, albeit with religious and political spin. In reality, the 'biblical' texts of the period under consideration are no better and no worse than records of other nations. It is self-evident from the fact that I have been able to reconcile much of the information that it is possible to do so.

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