2010 District Convention - Some Thoughts on the Sunday Afternoon Session

by Olin Moyles Ghost 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Out of a sense of morbid curiosity, I recently attended the Sunday afternoon session of the District Convention. The session consisted of a drama and the infamous "Remain in the Secret Place of the Most High" talk. Overall, I got a sense that the WTS is in damage control mode because The End hasn't come yet. The friends are getting discouraged because the Society misled them into believing they would never get old. Thus, the Society tried to salvage its credibility by (1) drawing false analogies to the First Century Christians, and (2) tinkering with the "generation" doctrine.

    First, in the "Walk by Faith and Not by Sight" drama, one of the themes was that the First Century Christians who fled Jerusalem in 66 A.D. were wondering when The End (in their case, Jerusalem's destruction) was going to come. The primary message was to equate this to the situation of JWs today, who have been waiting for The End to come for many decades.

    Of course, like most WTS "parallels," this one failed miserably. Assuming that the Gospels accurately describe what Jesus said when he said it, around 33 A.D. Jesus said that "all these things" would occur before "this generation" passed away. About 33 years later, Rome attacked and withdrew so that the Christians could flee to the mountains. Then, four years later, Rome took Jerusalem. Thus, Jesus' predictions regarding Jerusalem came true within 37 years from when he spoke them--definitely within "a generation." To compare this to the Watchtower Society's ridiculous chronology is an insult to Jesus and the First Century Christians. The Watchtower Society has been falsely predicting The End for over 130 years. To compare this abysmal track record to the Christians who waited four years for Rome to destroy Jerusalem is disingenuous.

    Second, the final talk of the day was basically a pep talk to keep people from leaving the organization or "slowing down" their activity. The first half of the talk discussed several factors that can cause discouragement (such as not getting a desired "privilege of service"), and how we shouldn't let that discourage us.

    There was also a nice little dig at "higher education." The speaker gave an experience of a young man who started college, then saw that people in his field were dedicating their entire lives to studies/career. He said he was dedicated to Jehovah, so he couldn't be dedicated to studies/career. Thus, he left college, pioneered, went to MTS, and was sent to a foreign country as a missionary. The implication was clear: don't go to university.

    Then, there was the famous "generation" new light. Here's a transcription of that part of the talk:

    That brings us to the question here, or the topic, that at no time would we want to leave the "secret place." This is not the time to leave the "secret place," for that matter there wouldn't be any time to leave the "secret place." But especially now is no time to leave the "secret place." Why? Well, particularly in view of the recent clarification we had with regard to Matthew 24 and verse 34. Now turn over there, Matthew 24 and verse 34.

    We just had a Watchtower lesson last week with some fine material about this verse. Matthew 24:34: "Truly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away until all things occur." Of course, the accurate or proper understanding of that really underscores the fact that we're living deep in the time of the end and there's a need at this time as never before for us to have an increased sense of urgency. Of course, that generation consists of contemporaries of individuals who lived at the same time.

    Now the Watchtower of--the 2008 Watchtower--the 12/15 issue, page 25 made this comment about the word "generation": it says the word generation usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. Now we've got an example of that: Exodus 1, and verse 6. "Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers, and all that generation."

    Just think about what's written there--it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now 10 of Josephs brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least 2 of those brothers lived after his death. So they were of a variety of ages but they were contemporaries and viewed as one "generation."

    Now, correspondingly, the word "generation" there at Matthew 24:34 is comprised--or comprises--two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in the year 1914 when the sign of Christ's presence first became observable. The second group of anointed Christians are those who were anointed later and for a time were contemporaries of the older group. Now in view of that, Jesus' words there in Matthew 24:34 indicate that some of the second group will witness the beginning of the Great Tribulation, so the length of the generation, while not specified as far as the number of years, but it's a limited period of time.

    Now we might illustrate it this way, F.W. Franz was born in the year 1893, he was baptized in the year 1913, so brother Franz was alive to discern the sign in 1914. Now Brother Franz, escuse me, Brother Franz lived until the year 1992, and many present-day anointed ones were his contemporaries and part of the generation that Jesus said would not pass away until all these things occur.

    Now in view of that, Brother Franz, and for that matter, other faithful anointed ones lived in very challenging time period. A very challenging time period where strong faith was needed in order for them to remain in the secret place of the most high.

    [moved on to discussion of C.T. Russell, Rutherford, and release of new DVD]

  • undercover
    undercover

    Thanks for your willingness to endure this while the rest of us were lounging around or enjoying other, more joyous events... (I hope your white shirt & tie did not stain from the sweat caused by the summer heat)

    Did you happen to look around to see the reaction of people in your section? Of course, this was a Sunday afternoon 'after-lunch-and-feeling-like-a-slug' talk so maybe no one was really awake to fully realize the significance of this "new light"...

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Thanks, UC. As a side note, it's a surreal experience going to one of these Conventions after "waking up" to the fact that it's all a bunch of baloney. Maybe I'm a "softie," but I feel really sorry for those who still believe it, especially the older ones who toiled away for the Society for decades under the false hope that they would never die.

    I did look around a bit while the speaker was dishing out the generation new light. I mostly saw blank expressions, and some people were sleeping. This is typical. I'm sure that during the time I was an active, believing JW, there were plenty of assembly talks that were just as nutty as this "generation" nonsense. But when I was there, my mind was usually elsewhere--such as where we were going to eat afterward, and with whom.

  • nugget
    nugget

    It is a shame that those outside can see so clearly the flaws in the doctrine whilst those inside will be lulled into thinking this provides an explanation. It was our convention this weekend and despite the lure of free coach travel we went to Alton Towers instead. I feel for you.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I'm not sure if others already made these comments but:

    There was also a nice little dig at "higher education." The speaker gave an experience of a young man who started college, then saw that people in his field were dedicating their entire lives to studies/career. He said he was dedicated to Jehovah, so he couldn't be dedicated to studies/career. Thus, he left college, pioneered, went to MTS, and was sent to a foreign country as a missionary. The implication was clear: don't go to university.

    *sigh* My wife's convention is coming up and this is all she needs to discourage her even more concerning her getting her degree. I just hope she realizes that she made a commitment and will at least see it through because $8,000 to $10,000 is a lot to come up with if she falters.

    To compare and contrast, this past Sunday I was in church with my daughter. The pastor brought up about 10 people on stage and let them tell the congregations about their accomplishments. One girl finished her master's in teaching, another guy is in seminary school and is earning his degree in counseling. Some others finished high school and others college, then we all prayed for them in their future paths that they will take. A far cry from what I see at the assemblies where they made an example of one individual who had decided to forego college and instead work in his father's (wait for it...) window washing business so he could pioneer more. Dreadful...

    Just think about what's written there--it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now 10 of Josephs brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least 2 of those brothers lived after his death. So they were of a variety of ages but they were contemporaries and viewed as one "generation."

    Question, did not Jacob live to be a VERY OLD AGE? Somewhere in the hundreds of years old? I mean, the same thing could be said of Cain, Abel, Seth and all of the brother's and sister's fathered by Adam over his (what) 900+ years? They are one generation because they all had the same parents, nothing more. This attempt by them to explain their faulty definition of a "generation" is ridiculous.

  • undercover
    undercover
    Now the Watchtower of--the 2008 Watchtower--the 12/15 issue, page 25 made this comment about the word "generation": it says the word generation usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. Now we've got an example of that: Exodus 1, and verse 6. "Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers, and all that generation."
    Just think about what's written there--it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now 10 of Josephs brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least 2 of those brothers lived after his death. So they were of a variety of ages but they were contemporaries and viewed as one "generation."
    Now, correspondingly, the word "generation" there at Matthew 24:34 is comprised--or comprises--two groups of anointed Christians. The first group was on hand in the year 1914 when the sign of Christ's presence first became observable. The second group of anointed Christians are those who were anointed later and for a time were contemporaries of the older group. Now in view of that, Jesus' words there in Matthew 24:34 indicate that some of the second group will witness the beginning of the Great Tribulation, so the length of the generation, while not specified as far as the number of years, but it's a limited period of time.

    I've heard this before and read all the threads about it, but I still shake my head in amazement when I see this...

    Using Joesph and his brothers as the basis for coming up with this over-lapping bullshit is just...I can't think of a good word...amazing is all I've got, Just f'g amazing.

    And that last paragraph...to so boldy assert that the 'generation' comprises of two groups and they overlap, when for decades they pointed out the current generation was the one to see the end...

    I see where you're coming from, feeling sorry for em and all, and I do too...to a point...but if anyone actually takes the time to study this and then tries to defend it, then I'm sorry...they deserve to be in a cult...and away from normal society.

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    This is excellent, Olin Moyle's Ghost--is it acceptable to call you OMG? Anyway, the thing about speaking about this new understanding--apart from the absurdity of calling it "accurate"--is that it doesn't buy much more time, they way they explained it. Maybe Joseph's brothers were what, 20, 30 years older than him, tops? If that's true, this doesn't buy more than 20-30 years' time. We could be generous to push it beyond that. Which means by 2040 or so, we can expect another overlapping generation.

    Let's just hope by 2040 that we're not talking about this crap anymore. How about that?

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Genesis 47:27-28 And so Israel settled down in Egypt in the region of Goshen. They acquired property and flourished. They became a large company of people. Jacob lived in Egypt for seventeen years. In all, he lived 147 years. MSG

    Genesis 50:22 -23 Joseph continued to live in Egypt with his father's family. Joseph lived 110 years. He lived to see Ephraim's sons into the third generation. The sons of Makir, Manasseh's son, were also recognized as Joseph's. MSG

    Wonder what they plan on making of Jack Barr's longevity?

    Tee hee hee.

    Syl

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    147 years, huh? Okay, I see that my original assertion was wrong. Thanks

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Thanks for the comments, everyone. And sd-7, feel free to call me OMG. I think this new light buys them at least another 40 years or so. Assuming that to be a member of the second group, you had to be anointed (not just alive) during the lifetime of someone like Fred Franz, the youngest member of that group would be about 50 years old or so. As modern medicine continues to improve, no doubt some of them will live well into their 90s. Thus, the generation could be alive and kicking 40 or more years from now.

    On another thread, someone (I think it was sir82) mentioned that this new light could be a good way to marginalize the "new anointed" who have started partaking in the last few years. It creates an arbitrary cut-off point (1992). If you weren't partaking by then, you're not part of the "generation."

    I've got to admit, when I first heard of this "generation" new light on this board, I had a hard time believing it was true. It just seemed too crazy--even by WTS standards. Now, I still think they're crazy...crazy like a fox! This new doctrine jacks up the friends' sense of urgency and marginalizes those dangerous new partakers. Sounds like a win-win for the Society.

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