Posts by StarTrekAngel

11

Did I miss something?

by StarTrekAngel in

so sat thru yet another "new light" session this past sunday.

as you may already know, it is a continuation of the previous study.

you know the speech... no more type/anti-type.

Another thing I noticed was quite an influx of people heading towards the donation box. They played the latest broadcast at the KH this Saturday. The ones I saw were not dropping change. Only $20 bills.

75

Rumor about the Imitate Jesus Convention

by FusionTheism in

i saw a rumor a few weeks ago on reddit that the new imitate jesus convention is supposed to present new light and clarified understandings on the disfellowshipping/disassociation practices.. supposedly, if this rumor has any truth to it, there will be a talk given at the convention about how we should not be strict like the pharisees in how we shun people, loosening up some of the jw rules about this practice.. has anyone here heard anything about this or have more info on it?.

StarTrekAngel

We'll have to wait and see but I would not expect anything big. Back in March of 2014, there were two studies in the WT that addressed something to that much. While it did not immediately said that shunning is out the window, it did mention how we should not be quick to judge those who "seemed to have apostate tendencies" or quick to judge our brothers by their choice of fashion. If anything, they will clarify that we should only shun those who have been officially been announced as DFd.

11

Did I miss something?

by StarTrekAngel in

so sat thru yet another "new light" session this past sunday.

as you may already know, it is a continuation of the previous study.

you know the speech... no more type/anti-type.

StarTrekAngel

So sat thru yet another "new light" session this past Sunday. As you may already know, it is a continuation of the previous study. You know the speech... no more type/anti-type. No more looking for meaning where there is none. Is so obvious that no one is paying attention. I was falling asleep and yet I was able to catch this.... bolds mine

3 We noted in the preceding article that over recent decades, the faithful slave has gradually come to explain the Scriptures with less emphasis on sym- bolic prophetic pictures and more on practical application. In the past, our lit- erature at times assigned specific sym- bolic meanings even to small details of Jesus’ parable of the ten virgins, includ- ing the lamps, the oil, the flasks, and so forth. Is it possible, though, that we were allowing the spotlight to shift from the parable’s simple, urgent message? As we will see, the answer is of vital im- portance. (No more idiotic meaning to parables?)

“The bridegroom came.” (Matt. 25:10) As was discussed in the July 15, 2013, issue of this journal, Jesus’ prophecy record- ed in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 con- tains eight references to his “coming”; in each case, a form of the same Greek word is used. In every instance, Jesus was referring to the time during the great tribulation when he will come to carry out the judging work and then the destruction of this world system of things. Evidently, then, this parable ap- plies during the last days, but its climax comes during the great tribulation. (So is it a parable or a prophecy?)

The second quality that helps those virgins to be ready is vigilance. Would it be possible for individual anointed Christians to get sleepy during a long nighttime vigil? Indeed. Note that Jesus says of the ten virgins that “they all be- came drowsy and fell asleep” during the apparent delay of the bridegroom. Jesus knew well that even a willing, eager spirit may be hampered by the weakness of the flesh. Faithful anointed ones have heeded that implied warning and have worked ever harder to remain vigilant, watchful. In the parable, all the virgins responded to the nighttime shout: “Here is the bridegroom!” But only the vigilant ones endured to the end. (Matt. 25:5, 6; 26:41) What about faithful anointed ones today? Through- out the last days, they have responded to strong evidence that, in effect, cries out, “Here is the bridegroom”—just about to come. They have also endured, keeping ever ready for the Bridegroom to arrive.􏰃 However, the climax of the parable fo- cuses on a more specific period of time. How so? (So if they all were drowsy, how did the discrete half remained vigilant?)

􏰃 Side note: In the parable, there is a distinct interval be- tween the shout, “Here is the bridegroom!” (verse 6) and the actual coming, or arrival, of the bridegroom (verse 10). Throughout the last days, vigilant anoint- ed ones have discerned the sign of Jesus’ presence. They thus know that he is “here”—ruling in Kingdom power. They face the challenge of enduring until his coming, or arrival. (Thought we were done putting meaning were there is none)

So, all and all, provided that things are supposed to be turning simpler, this is the most confusing study I've seen. What struck me the most was the language of the elder directing the study. When speaking on regards of the new understanding he would ask questions like "What could have happened if we tried to append too much meaning to the parable?" Speaking in that past tense tells me (and excuse me, second hand english speaker here) that he was speaking as if this has never happened. In my perspective, the practical lesson was somewhat highlighted, but they still failed at the temptation of putting meaning where there is nothing. Even without considering the side note, to say the discreet virgins remained vigilant until the end (despite the fact that the fell asleep just like the other ones) is not wha the lesson is. The lesson has more to do with preparedness than vigilance. Just like a survivalist that stocks up food despite not knowing when a disaster is going to hit. He does not have to worry himself with watching out for everything. He knows he will be ready not matter what comes or when.

146

Why I remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Brother Jeramy in

allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.

i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.

some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).

StarTrekAngel

Hey Brother! To be honest, I do understand what your stand is. I use to think just like you. In fact, my wife still does. We use to think we could be in that position and no one would ever mind. Figure that jehovah wanted us baptized so we did. It was then that I began to realize that we were now under a different set of rules. Wife still thinks she can believe whatever she wants. She does not share her doubts with others and neither do I. The difference is I realized that I am more isolated than ever before. I could express my doubts before, even if someone heard me, well I was not one of them. Now I am baptized. I have to be careful because if kids hear me, they will most likely tell other kids and that is how they will find out. If not, there will be another way. Point being is that I am having to watch what I say and when I say it.

Just like others pointed out here. You will not be able to live like that forever. Sooner or later someone will find out. My personal stand is that people like you and, before I changed, me, do not understand the bible, God or religion for that matter. They have been separated from the path. They are now so far off that they can utter things like the ones you do. My mother in law is the same. She can rant against Babylon the great all day. When you tell her that as long as she is part of an organization as hypocritical as this one, then she is in the same position, then she will respond that she does not care what the org does wrong. She only cares about being ok with God. :/

Go figure.

146

Why I remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Brother Jeramy in

allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.

i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.

some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).

StarTrekAngel

So please explain my bitterness away...

When Jesus was on Earth he preached to the nation of Israel, which had been poisoned by the hypocrisy and bad practices of some (though not all) of the religious leaders. And many of the people were misled, which is why John the Baptizer gathered them to repentance in preparation for Jesus. Yet poisoned as Israel was, it was not "all wrong." What Jesus sought was repentance, not retreat.

-So you mean to say we should be preaching to the GB and the rest of the brothers who fail to see the difference between the WT and the JW?

But they are quite simply wrong.

Generalizations are easy and convenient. They give place to negative and reactionary impulses, and permit scapegoating, whereby one can lay the abundance of blame upon something or someone as the cause of all their problems.

- So you mean "generalizing", like calling all apostates mentally diseased? Like try telling a dad: Your son has decided to leave the organization and therefore he is by definition an apostate (replace "an apostate" with "mentally diseased")

Now excuse my sarcasm. I fail to see how this is a matter of choice. Please explain.

22

Everything seems to be changing... why not birthdays?

by StarTrekAngel in

if we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control.

- assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year.

so all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members).

StarTrekAngel

If we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control. There is no easy way to imagine the day they would finally admit about 1914, the generations, the F&D slave. Changing that would loosen the tight grip too much and they would loose too much control. However, on of the topics that is most interesting to me is celebrations. The reason being is that, while they are willing to let loose on subjects like blood, they are not budging, not even a bit, on the celebration thing. As far as I know, there has not been any well documented changes to the issues of celebrations for a very long time. Blood, among others, have undergone a certain degree of reform. Certainly, is not as much as we would wish, but for sure changes have happened. Many of us, if not all, would attribute such change to financial issues. The same goes for other changes, like the donation arrangements for the magazines (instead of selling them). So what can be said about other doctrines that are not so unscriptural (like Bdays)? Why have not those changed if other more spiritually critical issues have (like blood)

Regarding the celebrations, I had once to wonder, why would they be so dead serious on banning them. I mean, I don't think the GB is unaware of the possible flaws on this doctrine. The only reason I can find for them to be so serious about it, is money. In your experience in relating to other ExJW, has anyone ever noticed or mentioned how JW are allowed to celebrate every feast that only happens once in a lifetime (even if they are pagan) but not yearly? Weddings, graduations, baby showers, etc. But none of the yearly celebrations are allowed. Birthdays, mother and father day, etc etc. Wedding anniversaries are a yearly celebration by definition but very few people actually carry them out, as they are, usually, an intimate thing for the couple. Only marriage milestones are celebrated consistently (like every 10 years).

As much as I thought about it, I could not separate my mind from the fact that there is a very clear line dividing the do's and dont's when it comes to most celebrations. All allowed celebrations only happen once in a lifetime for every person. We, however, do make it a point to make sure everyone and their mother attends all four of the yearly WTBTS celebrations (3 assemblies and the memorial) and we make sure to take gifts to almost all of them.

So with that in mind, I decided to run the numbers. Just to give them the benefit of the doubt, I decided to keep it conservative...

-Based on the 2014 Year Book, there is 13,714 congregations in the US main territory. Also, there is a total of 1,167,723 publishers. This shields an average of about 85 publishers per congregation.

- Based on this numbers I looked at my own congregation and behold... we actually have 85 publishers exactly. So, I will not be too far off assuming our congregation is a good sample to depart from.

- Assuming an average witness family of 4 (parents and two children), this give you an average of 20 families per congregation

- Assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year. 20 families x 2 children per family

- While we do have 85 publishers in our cong, the actual attendance numbers are anywhere from 120 to 140 (watchtower study days). Most of whom are associated members of the congregation. Where we stand today we have no one who is DF. So all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members)

- Again, in an effort to be conservative, consider that may be not every single individual in attendance will present a gift to the host, but lets assume one gift per family. It will be safe to assume every family can spare $20 dollars for a gift. At 30 families this means a potential $600 in gifts alone. If we consider the number of celebrations per year, the total is $24,000 per year.

- This don't seem like a number the WTBTS would be willing to consider in light of the controversy that could surround the doctrine, until you consider the entire US JW population. At 13,714 congregations, this would amount to $329,136,000 per year.

I understand the variables are many and so are the assumptions I am making. Many families could choose not to attend if they have no children or if they could not afford the gift. Other wealthier families may choose to make more expensive gifts. I am also leaving out JW relatives from other congregations that may attend, the many adults that may choose to celebrate their own birthdays and the other congregations world wide.

The point being is that, all things considered, there is a millionaire sum to be accounted for when it would come to celebrations within such a tight knitted community. Another thing to notice is that we are looking at birthdays and the gifts only. If you account for the actual cost of the party (food, decorations, games, music, etc) or you begin to consider other celebrations like mothers day, etc, then the numbers would quickly skyrocket. And lets not forget that we, JW, have more than just our fleshy parents, we also have spiritual parents (those who brought us in). Would you not make a mother's day gift for your spiritual mother? after all, she gave you the life that really is life.

Could it be said that I am implying that the WTBTS did this in an attempt to have us donate the money that would otherwise have gone as a gift to a person? Not at all. For once it would have made it too obvious and, second, history most likely shows that, if the earlier was true, the strategy did not work (or did it? I could not say for sure so I will not make such statement officially)

With all of these in mind I can only conclude this is an attempt to "keep life simple". An attempt to make sure people have no other reason to spend money beyond their basic life necessities. This can be done while allowing the others, relatively cheaper celebrations, go on as normal so that no one feels we are being deprived of fun things to do.

Have you ever pondered about this? I really need to have this analysis "peer reviewed" or, if someone already came to this conclusion before, if you could point me out to some good reading

I appreciate your comments. Thanks

10

How much can you buy with a dollar a week allowance?

by John Aquila in

$ 1 dollar a week x 8 million jws = $ 8 million dollars a week.

$ 8 million x 52 weeks in a year = $ 416 million dollars a year.

and its all tax free.. you know jws donate more than $ 1 dollar a week!

StarTrekAngel

Not all donations go to the society. The hall needs to cover expenses too. In my hall, we were asked to attend a meeting once. All male publishers, regardless of what kind of privileges you were spiritually mature to deserve, had this one privilege. To attend a meeting were we were told the hall did not have enough to cover the current month.

True as well it is that the fact that they are asking for money is not proof there is a real financial problem. I do happen to think there is one because other evidence points to it. At best, the hardship may come not from a lack of donations but from the growing pains of transition. I happen to think that the WT is transitioning from a voluntary donation/voluntary mag subscription type of business model to a more real state dependent model. That takes time and some initial expenses to survive while the new model kicks in. I believe we are all going to see our halls changed at some point in the future. Unless you are in a hall where the real state market is busting, then you may get relocated. Other than that, the new model will demand that your hall gets changed for the new design. It is more efficient in every way.

6

How can they continue the FDS "prophecy" now?

by StarTrekAngel in

i know there are another 100 threads probably started on this.

i can't help but to wonder how would anyone be able to defend the existence of the fds at this point.

could anyone play devils advocate?

StarTrekAngel

I know there are another 100 threads probably started on this. I can't help but to wonder how would anyone be able to defend the existence of the FDS at this point. Could anyone play devils advocate? The only thing I can think of is by means of relating other things. For example.. we know we can get disfellowshipped for questioning the GB. If we were to be told that we no longer have faith and we argue that we still believe in God, then the GB and Jehovah will be equated to be the same and therefore throw you out.

Based on the NWT, Jesus asked the question "Who is the FDS..? You could then say that while the bible does not literally calls this a prophecy, the fact that there is an open question, then there must be an answer. Other bibles translate that paragraph different. We all know that other bibles do not apply here.

8

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bull $hit

by hoser in

i was thinking of this when i was sitting at the kingdom hall today.

one of the paragraphs in the watchtower stated that the type/anti type teachings were too hard for some to understand.

i could never figure them out never made sense to me.

StarTrekAngel

I think they had to come to admit it was complicated because they've realized the internet community is explaining it for them.

4

Need quick help- Have to ask wife a question

by StarTrekAngel in

conversation came up this morning and i need to get into my wife's head.

mother in law was talking and she said something her mother (who was not a jw) use to say.

i laughed uncontrollably because it was really funny.

StarTrekAngel

Thanks JWdaugther. That was sort of the reason for my posting. I wanted to make sure I get back to her quick enough. Thanks everyone for your input.