god's guidance = only the guidance of the wts/fds/gb.
when, though, do we need that guidance?
god's guidance = wts/fds/gb guidance.
Employment: They cost me a successful career and made me live pay check to pay check for over 30 years.
Temporary suffering: They are still saying that it's only temporary! Temporary, another word indicating that it will all be over soon.
How many of us have suffered in one way or another for many , many years, a whole lifetime if your elderly.
Thanks again Blondie!
Blueblades
from howard kahane of bernard baruch college.. there are "methods of argumentation".
honest and dishonest.
principled and unprincipled .
"FAITH is the only strategy people without proof can use to push an agenda forward without evidence."
May I use an example: When we look at human life from two diametrically opposed points of view, those of the believer and the unbeliever, we have two conflicting points of view. No one is neutral on such an emotionally charged issues.
None of us can tolerate the notion that our worldview may be based on a false premise and thus, our whole life is headed in the wrong direction. Because of the far-reaching implications for our lives, we tend to dismiss and contradict agruments for the worldview we reject.
Sir Francis Bacon advised: "Read not to contradict...but to weigh and consider."
Socrates said "the unexamined life is not worth living."
Blueblades
from howard kahane of bernard baruch college.. there are "methods of argumentation".
honest and dishonest.
principled and unprincipled .
From Howard Kahane of Bernard Baruch College.
There are "Methods of Argumentation"
Honest and Dishonest
Principled and Unprincipled
Genuine and Artificial----including, mere assertions, one sided presentations where contrary evidence is suppressed or ignored.
We often accuse the watchtower society of using these methods of argumentation and rightfully so. We too have been guilty of using this method of argumentation when we went out to preach what the watchtower printed.
Now that we are no longer associated with the watchtower how are we doing when we post a new topic and respond to other poster's who may have certain belief systems of their own.
Do we truly use the left side of the methods shown above or do we sometimes use some of the right side of the methods shown above to get our own way of thinking across.
I try to stick with the left side of the methods shown above.
I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything but what they truly believe to be right in their own mind.
For myself, I think that I may have been guilty of using the right side of the last method, and that is using the artificial method which includes, mere assertions, one sided - presentations where contrary evidence is suppressed or ignored because deep inside myself I can't believe what some believers tell us what they believe. And it's very hard to convince the true believer otherwise. I will try very hard not to impose my will or thinking on others and stick to the left side of the method of argumentation.
Thanks for responding.
Blueblades
the trinity doctrine is a conceptual classification.
it is not a thing itself.
we don't bump into a trinity in everyday life.
Terry! Good game! As I was reading the topic and the responses,I thought of it as a chess match. On the one side you have a winner by checkmate and a loser by being checkmated. The one doing the checkmating is using primacy of existence. The one being checkmated is using primacy of consciousness. ( unknown to themselves until checkmated )
However, there is another side to the chess game, and that is the stalemate. Which is an unresolved situation in which further action is impossible or useless, it is a deadlock. It results in a draw.
I liken this part of the game ( the stalemate ) as the unknown factor or factors in quantum physics.
Am I guilty of primacy of consciousness in using this illustration or correctly using primacy of existence in an illustrating way.
For those who are using primacy of consciousness when it comes to the doctrine of the trinity may I suggest reading "The Doctrine of the Trinity" , Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound. by Anthony F. Buzzard and Charles F. Hunting.
Blueblades
when i first read about wts having "new ligth" on the 1914-generation issue in the newspaper i was shocked.
(some evil apostates had been helpful and informed the paper weeks before i got my november issues of the wt.).
my thoughts was.
Hi ST. I conducted that watchtower study and was puzzled at the time. I just went through the study letting the elders and pioneers and bethelites do the explaining. The local friends did not comment too much on this study. Of course the Bethelites had already studied it on monday night at Bethel.
Later, us elders were telling the rank and file that this new light did not mean that armageddon was put off.
I realized then that something was very wrong and soon stepped down using family concerns as the reason.
Blueblades
how long do you think they can keep it up before even the happily brainwashed will be able to recognize that the whole thing is a bust?.
another 5 years?
i was thinking about the whole stance that when "the world" declares "peace and security", then "the end" will come.. we all know the jws just love earthquakers, hurricanes, tsunamis, 9/11s, wars, etc.
When the money runs out. Follow the money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
As long as they can sell off real estate and keep the rank and file bringing in the tax free cash, they will continue to be around.
The meetings, doctrines, teachings, and book publishing are all part and parcel of the spin to keep the money coming.
As long as what comes in is more than what goes out, they will be in business.
Blueblades
i've just finished one of the most awesome non-fiction books i've ever read.
it's entitled 'reinventing the sacred: a new view of science, reason and religion' and written by stuart kauffman, well known for his theories on the origin of life and other complex systems, and author of the highly acclaimed 'origins of order', a must read for anyone interested in contemporary post-darwinian biology.
in rts, kauffman tries to transcend the huge divide between secular humanists and those believing in a transcendent god by exposing the inadequacies of both world views.
The puzzle remains.
How did the first of the first come about? It did not come about, it was always there, by whom, by what?
There is really no new view. Just a revisiting of many other views.
Something was always there, nothing was always there, space between the space. Who, What, Why, Where, and When????
The theory of everything and so it goes.
Through death we will come to know or not know what all mankind has been searching for...the meaning of life, the purpose of life, how the first of the first came about or the endless sleep.
Pay me no mind, just thinking outloud. I know with a certainty, that I don't know. In my 63 years I have read many books all claiming to have the answers from both sides of the camp.
Both sides claim scholarly backgrounds, both are convinced that they have found the answers,. How old is this current new view of science, reason and religion?
And when will the next "New View" be presented and by whom?
Hamilcarr, I realize that you are only trying to be helpful. I will look into this, it will take some time to digest.
Blueblades
Keyser, You are so right. Jesus was quoted as saying "By your own words you condemn yourselves" So too, "Thus Sayith The Governing Body" they condemn themselves.One proof of this is their going after the "QUOTES SITE" and trying to shut it down. They did for awhile, then it popped up from China and they can't stop it. They have fullfilled the proverbial "Foot In The Mouth". yet again.
Blueblades
yes folks, if you thought the watchtower would lighten up on birthdays think again.... .
.
It looks like an updated rehash, same ole' same ole', different title. If you don't do as we say, then you fall out of Jehovah's ( watchtower's ) Love.
Remember George Carlins line, "God loveeeesss youuu, even though he will put you in hell, and he needs money".
So, the love bombing continues with a new release, Keep Yourselves In God's ( watchtower's control ) Love.
Happy Birthday to any who have one today
Blueblades
hi everyone, i'm not new here just haven't posted in a while.
for those who remember me i'm graduating from college on wednesday!!!!
i'm very happy but there's still a dark cloud (pardon the dramatic-ness) i am still with my non-jw boyfriend of almost three years and i've let my parents know that we want to get married (next month) and they went and told the elders(they did it kinda behind my back) who now want to meet and talk with me!
The fade has worked for my family. Then moving away from the headquarters. We refused to answer to anyone connected with the society.
Congratulations on your graduationEnjoy the rest of your life without interference from the society. As you can see there many opinions on what you can do. Do what's good for you.
Blueblades
