Posts by objectivetruth

8

Fake letter from the branch re counting of time

by stuckinarut2 in

in another thread, one of our members made up a great satirical letter that sounded like something the society would write about how to count time now.... it included counting all time spent in preparation etc.... (can someone please post the link here??).

i used the letter, edited it a little, and copied it on to official letterhead for a stir..... it is going on the notice board when i can casually slip in the hall one day..... .

ahhh...being a stirrer....such fun.....

objectivetruth

This is an interesting idea. is this illegal in any way? it doesn't seem that it would be Fraud, but I'm not sure. Anyone have an idea?

18

Charles Taze Russell

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

i think i read somewhere, here or maybe on another forum, that somebody claimed that c.t.

russell stood on the brooklyn bridge with some others, all in white robes, in 1878, waiting for the rapture.

any truth in that?.

objectivetruth

After the Rapture did not come, did they stand a top the Empire State Building, contemplating another end?

3

Does the New "Donations" arrangement comply with the Bible?

by objectivetruth in

it is a christian's responsibility to give of his time & resources.. this command is found all through the scriptures.. matthew 5:42 "give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.".

deuteronomy 15:7 "if anyone is poor among your fellow israelites in any of the towns of the land the lord your god is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them.".

proverbs 21:26 "all day long he craves for more, but the righteous give without sparing".

objectivetruth

never a JW - yes you're right. the method is not as disturbing, as what they do with the funds. I read a great post recently, that brought out the fact that most reputable charities publish all of their financials.. One would think if an organization was "The earthly kingdom" being managed by The Lord, this organization would be above any reproach.

oubliette - so true.

3

Does the New "Donations" arrangement comply with the Bible?

by objectivetruth in

it is a christian's responsibility to give of his time & resources.. this command is found all through the scriptures.. matthew 5:42 "give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.".

deuteronomy 15:7 "if anyone is poor among your fellow israelites in any of the towns of the land the lord your god is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them.".

proverbs 21:26 "all day long he craves for more, but the righteous give without sparing".

objectivetruth

It is a Christian's responsibility to give of his time & resources.. This command is found all through the scriptures.

Matthew 5:42 "Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you."

Deuteronomy 15:7 "If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them."

Proverbs 21:26 "All day long he craves for more, but the righteous give without sparing"

1 Timothy 6:18 "Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share."

We can see this in action here - Acts 2:45 "And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need." These individuals that decided to sell their possessions and belongings, these were brothers and aisters that had just been baptized by Holy Spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E. After hearing a moving statement from Peter and the other Apostles, the people said "what shall we do" (2:37) Peter instructed them to Be Baptized by Water, and then receive the Baptism of Holy Spirit. (2:38)

By what has transpired up until Acts 2:45, it is clear that any decisions that were made, came about because of the guidance of Holy Spirit.

We can look at Acts 2 as an example, of how we can give of our resources today.

Did the newly baptized ones give their Money & Possesions to Peter & the Apostles, who had just finished teaching them, and leading them to Baptism? Yes they did give it to the "Governing Body" of that time.. This can be seen in Acts 4:34,35 "that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales. and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need."

They did not give their money to the first century Governing Body, so that the money would disappear and go to Swiss Mansions, and Child Abuse Lawsuits.. They gave their money so that it could be equally distributed to the Poor Among Them!

All who had excess Sold their Possesions and brought the money to the Feet of the Apostles.. In 35 we see that the money was distributed to ANYONE who had need. The first Century Christians had created a Communal, financial arrangement which allowed all to do their best in the Ministry.

These Christians gave special attention to the Poor among them.

Matthew 19:21 "Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Acts 11:29 "So the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brothers living in Judea."

Acts 24:17 "After an absence of several years, I came to Jerusalem to bring my people gifts for the poor and to present offerings." What a true brotherhood of love, that existed with these first century Christians..

Acts 4:32 "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had."

These Christians were not concerned with Building up multi billion dollar, real estate portfolios. They were concerned with making sure that each other had Sustenance and Covering. Certainly they followed the Example that Jesus lived by and instructed.

Luke 9:58 "And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

Luke 10:4 "Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road."

Matthew 10:9 "Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts,"

Mark 6:8 "These were his instructions: "Take nothing for the journey except a staff--no bread, no bag, no money in your belts."

Does the current Governing Body follow the same Example? Are the poor being taken care of?

103

Additional BOE Letter: Please Be Advised that Further Direction Will Soon be Sent to the Bodies of Elders...

by TTATTelder in

dear brothers:.

we are writing as a follow-up to the letters dated january 24, 2014, and march 29, 2014,. to all congregations regarding the adjustments now underway to accelerate construction of king-.

dom halls and assembly halls.. .

objectivetruth

How is the "GB" following the direction of Matthew 6:34 in all of this? - " Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."

9

Dear Caleb - Jehovah is not sad

by jgnat in

i watched the children's video.

pretty slick.

do jehovah's will or else your parents and god will be very, very sad.

objectivetruth

Interesting Video - Thanks for posting that Frankie.

14

Dating the writing of a Bible book

by stirred but not shaken in

while doing the research over the last several years that lead me to conclude that the wt.

society was in error, i was introduced to the possibility that the writings of all scripture was completed by the early to mid 60s ce.

the reasoning that is used in the publications varies.

objectivetruth

Hi Stirred,

Interesting point regarding the completion in the mid 60's, this does make sense.

Have you read "Gentile Times Reconsidered"? This was written by a fine brother a few years back, and in it he digs really deep into this same topic.

if you're interested in reading it let me know, I can send you my copy..

I'm not much for chronology, I've never been able to get into it too much, however the start and completion dates of various books is of interest to me.

Have you read many Apocrypha or non canon books? Such as Enoch,Jasher ? There are some incredible insights found in some of these books that really help to illuminate areas of the Bible that aren't as clear.. I'm interested in hearing your insights in these books.

By the way welcome to the Board! This is a great community, with all sorts of opinions.. The opinions are very diverse, but one thing that is constant is the care and love shown by each member. Were all in this together, and you will come to appreciate how tight knit this community is.

26

Quotes from the Watchtower that you agree with 100%

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

just curious.

add your quotes with no commentary if you like, it should be obvious why you agree.. the dangers of being deceivedthe really sad fact is that very often the person who is deceived or deluded tends to hold on to his belief in spite of strong evidence proving otherwise.

perhaps he gets so emotionally attached to his belief that he simply shuts his eyes and closes his ears to any evidence that might challenge it.. the watchtower, 01/09/ 2010 p10/11.

objectivetruth

Demand Scriptural proofs for all you are asked to believe; take neither the decisions of Rome, nor those of Westminster, nor those of any smaller councils or synods, as final settlements of the question, "What is truth" And be sure that you believe and confess nothing that you do not understand fully and clearly.

To subscribe to, or confess, what you do not understand, and therefore can-not truly believe, is solemn lying in the presence of God and witnesses, no matter if it be true that others, by the hundred, have done the same before you. If you did this once, thoughtlessly, even though it were years ago, in joining the church, now that your attention is called to it, you are bound to procure a copy of the "covenant," or "articles of faith," the belief of which you confessed publicly, and after careful, prayerful study of it, if you find that you do not so believe, you will be bound to deny it as publicly as you confessed it, or else forfeit in God's sight all claim to honesty. Require of all who shall attempt to teach in the name of the Lord, the exact words of the Lord or the Apostle which they claim support their teaching. Get the chapter and verse and look the matter up for yourselves, critically, examining the text and the context. Weigh and test every item of teaching which you receive as your faith, regardless of how much you esteem the person who presents it. We know that no fellow-mortal is infallible, and that his word is the only standard by which God wishes us to square and measure and build up our faith.

When you come to apply this rule you will be greatly surprised. You will find that many errors of doctrine, as well as of custom, have been carried over from Romanism into Protestantism. Many doctrines expressed in the catechisms and confessions of faith and in the hymn books and from the various pulpits, you will find no foundation for in the Bible; and many prominent in the Bible, you will find are ignored by one or another, and some of them by all the sects of Chris-tendom. But hold fast to God's Word. Let God be true.

26

Quotes from the Watchtower that you agree with 100%

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

just curious.

add your quotes with no commentary if you like, it should be obvious why you agree.. the dangers of being deceivedthe really sad fact is that very often the person who is deceived or deluded tends to hold on to his belief in spite of strong evidence proving otherwise.

perhaps he gets so emotionally attached to his belief that he simply shuts his eyes and closes his ears to any evidence that might challenge it.. the watchtower, 01/09/ 2010 p10/11.

objectivetruth

1889 watchtower

.

But as for a clerical class, God does not recognize it as his elect teachers ; nor has he chosen many of his teachers from its ranks. The mere claim of any man to be a teacher is no proof that he is one by divine appointment.

That false teachers would arise in the church, who would pervert the truth, was foretold. The church, therefore, is not to' blindly accept what-ever any teacher may set forth, but should prove the teaching of those WhO they have reason to believe to be God's messengers, by the one infallible standard-the Word of God. "If they speak not according to this word, it. is because there is no light in them." (Isa, 8 :20.) Thus while the church needs teachers, and cannot understand God's Word without them, yet the church individually-each by himself and for himself, and himself only-must fill the important office of judge, to decide, according to the infallible standard, God's Word, whether the teaching'''be true or false, and whether the claimed teacher is a true teacher by divine appointment. Thus seen, not many special teachers are necessary ("helps" "pastors," ('t('., are more numerous-l Cor. 12 :28)-and th~y only when old truths may need to be lifted out of the dust of error and human tradition; or when some new unfoldings of God's plan require presentation to the church as "meat in due season." And then, such teacher must offer proofs that he is a teacher, and that his teaching is true, by harmonizing the Scriptures. God has in the past raised up teachers who, though be-fogged by prejudice~ and errors, .nevertheless ~rou~ht forth parts of truth; for instance, Wychffe, Huss, Zwmgh, Luther, Bunyan, Calvin, Wesley, and others; and God will conti~ue to so raise up the needed teachers. As Paul declares, God himself provides these teachers; they are his gifts to the church.-1 Cor. 12 :28. Any superior wisdom and ability granted such, is as much for the sake and for the good of the other members of Christ's church as for themselves. And whichever of God's children comes to see some important truth generally disregarded by thy church and finds himself possessed of ability to make it clear to others, should do so, should teach it, to whosoever has an ear to hear. If a new truth, it belongs to the entire household, and he who keeps it from them, for any cause, de-frauds the family of God, misuses a great favor, and deprives himself of a ministry (service). But notice, that these teachers are not the only priests of the royal priesthood; rather, they are merely GOd's agents ,or mouthpieces by which he speaks to the general priesthood, his consecrated church; and the entire church or priesthood is blessed of God through such teachers. Notice that the self-constituted clergy are not teachers, and do nOt and cannot appoint teachers; nor can they iN any degree qualify them. Our Lord Jesus keeps that part in power, and the so-called clergy have nothing to do with it fortunately, else there never would be any teachers; for the "clergy" both Papal and Protestant, strive constantly to prevent aNy change from those conditions of thought an~ ruts of misbelief, in which each sect has settled down. By their course of action they say, Bring us ~o new unfoldings of truth?, how-ever beautiful; and do not disturb the heaps of rubbish and human tradition we call our creeds, by digging down through them and bringing forth the Old Theology of the Lord and the apostles, to contradict us and to disturb our schemes and plans and methods. Let us alone! If you go poking into our old musty creeds, which our people so devoutly and ignorantly reverence and respect, you will stir up a stench such as even we could not endure; then, too, it will make us appear both small and foolish, and as not half-earning our salaries and not half-deserving the reverence we now enjoy. let us alone! is the cry of the clergy, as a whole, even if a few may be found to dissent from it and to seek for and speak out the truth at any cost. And this cry of the "clergy" is joined in by a large sectarian following.

19

Good News Report

by Watchtower-Free in

good news report: talked to a man who is currently studying with the.

jws.

he called into jwstruggle.com and asked to talk to someone.. i called him back .

objectivetruth

Do I put my slip into the box or do I just hand it to you?