Posts by Nicholaus Kopernicus

43

When You Were A Witness Did You Believe Everything Taught?

by minimus in

jw
friends

obviously at some point you stopped believing the witnesses had the truth or else you wouldn’t be here.

.

but for the most part, were you a true believer or were you typically a rebel or a doubter?

Nicholaus Kopernicus

Not quite everything. I found the teaching re "The Woman" and the "torture stake" rather tortuous.

"The Woman" - that this was a reference to God's heavenly organisation was difficult to swallow. At meetings I would sometimes answer up saying RCs believed the Woman was the virgin Mary which is one reason why statues of her may show her trampling on a snake's head (alluding to Gen 3:15). The countenance of folks was rather serious when I made reference to such. Also, Jesus referred to his mother as "woman" at Cana and when dying. Never referred to her as mother. The woman in revelation was quite descriptive of the virgin Mary too.

That the WT decided that stauros means torture stake only, was another difficult one. They were so rigid. Yet they admit that acts 5 (xylon) is translated as tree and so, that Jesus was fastened to a tree was OK with them but much ignored. It was as if they were a scholarly bunch of lexicologists and knew better than others. Since then of course we've had the exclusive definition of generation which evidences their intellectual bankruptcy and caprice.

65

Would You Ever Go Back To The Witnesses??

by minimus in

jw
friends

every once in a while you hear people say they actually “miss” their old witness friends and or family.

some would have even stayed in the organization if they became a bit more liberal and open minded.

.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

I departed in April 2017 and haven't been back either in person or virtually! Will never go back. This year was unusual in that I received several memorial invites. I can't go back and have no wish to as...

JW teachings are capricious.
Literature and Bible translations are wanting.
GB and branches encroaching into congregations via media is distasteful
Local and national govt portrayed as agents of Satan in context of investigating orgs child abuse but as God's minister when investigating others!
Fraternity conditional upon being acquiescent with BoE decisions and deferential to them as individuals without equivocation
Branches and GB are being dishonest with Cong's re rationale for sale of KHs.
BoEs manifest disposition of sentinels / Mutawa, rather than the shepherds which they portray themselves as
In many respects, the leadership (BoE, branches, and GB) are of low EQ, largely incompetent, and are themselves directly responsible for the departure of most individuals from the org.
The leadership tends to externalise and thus remain blind to their nihilistic impact upon others.

I would contend that affiliation with the org is detrimental to your mental health and likely your physical health too.

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

RandomUserName3500
It seems that you too have been a victim of incompetence - like Fadeaway 1962. It is jaw dropping for me to read of your account wherein you were told that the BoE would have taken care of it.

One of the differences between professionals in care, medicine, law etc, is that they will readily acknowledge if they are not the appropriate skill mix to get involved in an issue, and refer you to where you would obtain and benefit from the needed expertise. You seemed to have so benefitted from the expertise of police and courts, and your ex-wife will hopefully have learned something as a result of the response cost.

In that the BoE so readily opine that they could have taken care of things may be evidence that they "... think more of... [themselves] than..." is necessary and grossly overestimate their abilities. The institution as a whole seems very adverse to sign-pointing individuals to the requisite expertise needed. In that this is so, they probably jeopardise the welfare of many who are experiencing difficulties of one sort or another. They (WT) have much to answer for!

53

the gaping hole in this week's weak wt study.

by waton in

for pimi pimo persons: give us one text that says those aspiring to everlasting life should not partake of the bread and wine.

in the article, the whole proposition of refusing the emblems is based on the personal experience of one brother in the 1930s.!

all jws partook.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

John 6 has a bearing on this - from vs 22 which is Jesus' discourse in the synagogue at Capernaum...

vs 51 - "anyone who eats this bread will live for ever"

vs 54 - "anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life"

vs 58 - "but anyone who eats this bread will live for ever"

I don't read anything taught by Jesus limiting partaking to a limited number of JWs as taught by the GB. "Anyone" is much broader than a mere 144,000!

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

TRUE STORY - RUDE ELDER GET'S IT BACK:

Elderly Sister - unbaptised publisher. Astute, assertive, decisive.

Elder: anger issues, tends to be avoided, poor reputation among sisters, single, probably personality disorder.

One day both approaching inner twin door to main KH auditorium. The elder did not exercise courtesy & give way to the elderly sister. Thus, their shoulders clashed as they approached the doors simultaneously.

Elderly sister's reaction: turned to the elder and said sternly - "pearls before swine!"

Elder's reaction: red faced, went to Bro's on mag and lit desk and asked - "Is that any way to speak to an elder?"

JOY!

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

Fadeaway 1962
Can't blame you for refusing their offer of a study. BoE lack the education, EQ and soft skills necessary in a situation such as you were in. Indeed, the org paraded its incompetence when it showed to congs, the video of BoE supposedly helping a suicidal sister. They got her to say the statement - "I must be an integrity keeper" repeatedly. No mention of seeking engagement with mental health services. Nope! The WT and its BoE have all the answers!

47

What is the most insensitive thing an Overseer or Elder has ever said and done to you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

what is the most insensitive thing an overseer or elder has ever said and done to you?

i have had many insensitive things said to me by some elders, but for some reason one self-righteous elder was always on my case.

he didn't like the fact that i missed meetings, didn't like that i never went out in field service, that i didn't answer at the weekly meetings and he didn't like that i carried my books and magazines in my hands and not a service/book bag.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

I was told by the CoBoE that many in the congregation were concerned about my answers. He wouldn't elaborate on numbers, status, demographics of those concerned about my answers. I told him that I was really surprised in that I quoted the society's literature on the matter (the unannounced and sudden requirement in cong for Bros to wear a suit behind the lectern) and quoted scripture. Literature stated dress was a personal matter. Anyway, he told me that my answers were diatribe. Told me that if it didn't stop there would need to be a shepherding visit in the context of Galatians 6:1. I told him that I was sorry that many were concerned and that they wouldn't hear me again. They didn't either as that was my last meeting. That was several years ago now. So on this occassion the direct arrogance of the BoE was responsible for a reduction in attendance numbers. I was contacted a year later and a shepherding visit was suggested to me. I quoted Psalm 23:1 and said that in the unlikely event of me needing such I'd contact them and they needn't contact me again. Since then I heard nothing until a week ago - memorial invitation. No congregation letter heading. They're being careful to present a personal invitation, avoiding cong / WT formally - perhaps to avoid falling foul of the GDPR in UK & Europe. I suspect the WT is behind an enhanced effort to bring back individuals who departed the organisation - hence memorial invites this year and not other years. The reduction in numbers nationally may be getting to them.

65

Would You Ever Go Back To The Witnesses??

by minimus in

jw
friends

every once in a while you hear people say they actually “miss” their old witness friends and or family.

some would have even stayed in the organization if they became a bit more liberal and open minded.

.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

I was approached by two different JWs on two occasions while abroad. Both knew me from my elder days when I gave talks in their congregations. Both invited me to their meetings. I explained to them that I hadn't been to a JW meeting in years and that I can't even open a WT magazine. One responded that it wasn't her place to delve further and went on to explain Jehovah's many blessings on her. The other asked why, and I told him of the situation of x3 elders in Eire who reported child abuse to the police. Consequently, their eminances in the Britain branch assigned a JC and two of the three elders were deleted having been found to not be of sound mind for not having first called tbe branch's legal desk. He was shocked at this disclosure.

I haven't been to a JW meeting for over 4 years now. After 6 months of abscence had lapsed I was called by an elder who wanted to arrange a shepherding call. I thanked him and explained that "Jehovah is my shepherd, I shall lack nothing." Went on to add that should I discern the need for help I might approach them. I have had no further attempted contact. I suspect they know that if they were to force the issue there would be a significant response cost. The GDPR also protects me.

There is nothing that would make me return. Nothing! A significant factor behind my departure was being shunned following my use (on two occasions) of JW literature quotations and bible references during meetings to publicly admonish the local BoE for requiring bros to wear a suit when behind the lectern. When I was subsequently approached by two elders and informed that many were "concerned" about my answers I told them that they (the "many") would not be concerned about my answers ever again. Problem solved! Simple!

10

JW trolleys - London

by HB in

thought you might like to know that during a visit to london yesterday, the jw's were conspicuous by their complete absence.

admittedly it was a tuesday in february, but myself and my ex jw friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

we checked out the area around westminster station where we have talked to jws before, but there was no sign.

Nicholaus Kopernicus

I too have noticed a paucity of witnesses with their trollies in London. Previously noted them regularly at Oxford Circus, Marble Arch, Egware Road, and Victoria Street. I also noted that they tended to funnel - that is stand at side of trolley with arms extended holding out literature. This means that pedestrians' space on pavements was reduced. I am reasonably sure complaints were made to Westminster City Council and that the municipality's response has meant that the Britain Branch has had to cool down their "Metropolitan Witnessing" as they call it. I'm pleased to note their substantial absence - see them as mere litter!

3

Perspective which the GBoJW should implement.

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

on 30th january 2019, the rt hon jeremy hunt mp (foreign & commonwealth office) launched an independent review into the persecution of christians world wide to be chaired by philip mountstephen - bushop of truro.

in his address to the audience, jeremeyhunt stated... .

"... freedom of worship is a fundamental human right... freedom of worship is the invisible line between open societies and closed societies.. where freedom of worship is hampered or prevented, then usually that’s a sign of lots of other things going wrong, and we wanted to make sure that the uk is doing everything to champion the values that we all believe in.".

Nicholaus Kopernicus

DoC:

The WT tendency to shun, give "the cold shoulder" is deeply engrained. In my last three years attending meetings of JWs, I twice challenged an unannounced decision made by the local BoE which affected Bros having assignments behind the lectern. I cited and quoted WT literature and scripture forcefully. After the 2nd challenge I was approached by the CBoE who engaged in an ad hominem attack and didn't respond to the points I raised. My "friends" stopped talking to me. Despite reaching out to talk to them, they were visibly uncomfortable with my approaches. So I simply stopped attending. Stopped contributing money. Some months later I received a telephone call in the hope of the BoE paying a shepherding visit. I told him that "Jehovah is my Shepherd. I shall lack nothing".

I mention this as empirical evidence of what you say in terms of their shunning practice being intrinsic to their worship. However, their shunning preference(s) and the ease with which they use it is demonstrative of a propensity to scatter rather than gather. Scatttering, is not a feature of Christianity. This, and other nihilistic behaviours are contributing to the shrinkage of the org in the developed world. GOOD!