JW trolleys - London

by HB 10 Replies latest jw experiences

  • HB

    Thought you might like to know that during a visit to London yesterday, the JW's were conspicuous by their complete absence. Admittedly it was a Tuesday in February, but myself and my ex JW friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

    We checked out the area around Westminster Station where we have talked to JWs before, but there was no sign. Looked again at Oxford Circus and Regent Street which is the busiest part of London, but no one was there. No-one at Marylebone or Baker Street, no-one at Piccadilly, Leicester Square, Soho or anywhere else.

    We did come across a couple of enthusiastic ladies from another religion handing out tracts and a man with a sign saying ‘Jesus Saves’ ranting about the sin of masturbation, but that was it.

    In the evening, we attended an interesting lecture to celebrate Darwin Day, an annual event organised by HumanistsUK. The main speaker was Richard Dawkins, supported by Dr Alice Roberts, both evolutionary biologists.

    I would love to know what the reaction would have been if the JWs had been brave enough to set up their cart outside the lecture hall as the 3,000 attendees came out after listening to the inspiring talk and Q & A session.

    (Incidentally, we were interested to learn that Dawkins’ book ‘The God Delusion’ has been unofficially translated into Arabic - (it is illegally on the internet as a pdf) – and it has apparently been downloaded over 13 million times, at least 3 million of which have been from Saudi Arabia. Dawkins doesn’t get any royalties on illegal downloads but his books are currently being translated into Arabic, Urdu, Farsi and Indonesian, and these will be made available free of charge on the internet to respond to what he describes is a ‘stirring towards atheism’ in some Islamic countries.)

  • pepperheart

    About june last year i was in central london and walked all the way down oxford street and then via leicester square to trafalger square and saw only one jw trolley but walked past two islamic groups.It was a sunny day as well

  • Dubfounded

    They were outside Liverpool Street station on Tuesday. 3 women 1 man. But dammit by me knowing they were witnesses they have already witnessed!

  • Biahi

    Only came across one-on vacation in New Orleans. They were all smiles when I approached, then turned to deer in headlights look when I told them they protect pedophiles. Lol

  • ShirleyW

    I see London has a lot to learn from New York City when it comes to the carts. In some subway stations here they have two or three (yes 3) carts in the same station right across from each other. The Bros across the pond need to fly across the pond and see how the preaching work is being done in NYC.

  • HB

    I was quite disappointed not to see any JWs in London, as I had been looking forward to a discussion with them.

    I've never been a JW, never been in a KH or had any family connections to the JW Organisation, but I have learnt a lot from my exJW friend and from this forum and I am now feeling ready to test my debating skills on the topic of whether JWs are the one true religion.

    I've had three satisfying discussions with JWs at my door in the past on other issues, but I have been building my confidence level to be able to approach a trolley with this fundamental question. My friend would have been there as a back up if I got lost (I don't know the bible like JWs do), but I was feeling quite confident, so it was a shame we didn't find anyone for me to debate.

    I have several friends who are Christians (C of E, Methodist, Baptist, Catholic), but I don't debate religion with them as they keep their beliefs quietly to themselves, and I respect that, but JWs are fair game to challenge as they feel entitled to try to spread their beliefs to everyone.

    Hopefully there will be another time for me, although if the carts disappeared completely from the streets tomorrow, I don't think anyone would miss them.

  • redvip2000

    Gonna make a wild assumption here, but I suspect that as people begin to apostatize from the Org in this new age of the internet, the rate of people leaving will begin to increase dramatically.

    This is a group that relies on social bonds and as more and more people begin to leave from any particular JWs social circle, more individual JWs will reflect on whether there is any truth to the "apostate lies".

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Yes HB, I noticed that the West End of London no longer has a trolley presence like it did about four years ago.

    I used to enjoy what I call witness baiting and had some useful discussions not always revealing that I had been a JW. At the start of the trolley business perhaps the org wasn't so aware of the 'danger' of apostate interest in them.

    One problem which demonstrates how ineffective they are is from the fact that where they have been standing, it has been my experience that they are usually talking to other passing JWs who have stopped to socialise, preventing either a spread of JW gloom or our apostate enlightenment.

    I think this also emphasises as Redvip alludes, that a key element of jwism is membership of an exclusive but deluded social club--and people feel very safe in their own club.

  • The 12 Apostates
    The 12 Apostates

    I live in London and I see them all the time. You just have to go to the wrong places.

  • HB

    The 12 apostates - I would love to know where these 'wrong places' are!

    Half Banana, it's the only advantage I have, that I can honestly say when I talk to JWs that I have never had any connections to the religion, so they can't close the conversation down on the basis of me being 'a bitter and twisted apostate'.

    Initially I present as someone who is fascinated to learn about all religions and they immediately pigeon hole me into the role of a standard 'interested person' that they are trained to try to entice in with platitudes and fear.

    But further into the conversation, having established my lack of connection to their Organisation, they become deeply uncomfortable when they realise that an apparently 'normal' member of the public knows about some of the Watchtower's dirty laundry, eg if I mention I have heard about the UN scandal or the 'two witness rule' or paedophile court cases etc.

    I try to stay off biblical discussion as it's my weak point, but I can show incredulity for example that in the 21st century, they still believe there was a global flood, and I can leave them with nowhere to go on the issue of whether the world conditions are getting worse. An elder once pathetically told me that all the information that he'd been presented with about evolution 'just went over his head.'

    My favourite moment was the last time JWs called at my door. It was a mother and her 14 year old daughter. We talked for about 20 minutes, during which the daughter's eyes were big as saucers as I listed all the reasons I would not want to be a member of their religion.

    When I said to the mother "You have a beautiful daughter, but one day as she develops her own mind, she might decide she disagrees with you and want to leave the JWs. I would never want to be a member of a religion which demanded that if that happened, I must shun my own daughter".

    There was a very uneasy silence while the mother looked at the ground. The daughter had her mouth open and stared at me with a 'deer in the headlights' look. The mother then said it had been an interesting conversation but they must go, and they would call again, but that was two years ago and no JWs have called on me since then.

    I genuinely want to talk to JWs with the aim of hoping a little seed of information might eventually take root to help them learn the real truth, as I have learned what a damaging and pernicious cult JWs are.

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