Posts by kaik

7

Saved

by Stephanie Twist in

how can a person be saved?

do jw believe that we are saved through the blood of jesus?

bible verses?

JWs are divided on two classes. The noble one, represented by 144K and the Great Crowd of plebs. Only 144K are saved through blood of Jesus by partaking during the Passover. These anointed believe that they are chosen by Jehovah and will go to Heaven where they will be his spiritual bride and Jerusalem. Rest of humanity is destroyed in Armageddon unless they belong to Great Crowd and will ride through destruction as did Noah family on the Arc. JWs believe that their salvation is secured by association with the 144K and WT; but this faith is accompanied by deeds which means field work, and distribution of WT literature.

Issue of salvation in JW theology is really weird and does not make any sense unlike in other religions, where people are saved by faith. The salvation does not mean afterlife, JWs believe earthly existence, and thus salvation = surviving Armageddon. During resurrection phase, bad and good people will get another chance during 1000 years reign before another test that would eventually pave a way to earthly paradise. So you are not off the hook when you die nor when you survive Armageddon.

27

The Watchtower Society is confused over its “Seventy Years” and "Seven Times"

by Doug Mason in

until now, the watch tower society [wts] has argued that the 70 years was a period during which judah was totally and completely depopulated.

for this reason, it constantly argued that the period commenced when the jews left judah and entered egypt.

jerusalem was destroyed in the fifth month (two months before october/tishri).

kaik

WWI started on July 28 with official declaration of war between Austria-Hungary against Serbian kingdom. The next day, Austrian river gunboats bombarded Belgrade July 29, 1914.

August 1 is postwar propaganda to demonize Germans as starter of the war, but in reality the war was started by Austria-Hungary. Because Austria-Hungary disintegrated in October 1918, the blame was shifted to Germany and with it the German declaration of war against Russia. Again Germans did not started the war, Austro-Hungarians did.

179

Largest amount of refugees since WW2 in Europe

by Powermetal4ever in

jw
friends

so i had a discussion with my mother about this, and she claims that because of this that: "we are surely living in the last days right now" while i must admit myself that the situation seem chaotic, i don't want to believe that it is the last days.

so question is, how do i face an opinion like that?

kaik

I do not trust much mainstream media lets be from the left or right. There is a term that calls them presstitute. This is nothing new. Maximilien Robespierre wrote in 1794 on press:

What are the obstacles to their [people] enlightenment?
-The paid journalists who mislead the people every day by shameless distortions.
What conclusion follows?
-That we ought to proscribe these writers as the most dangerous enemies of the country and to circulate an abundance of good literature.

What is happening right now is the tightening grip of the government against the domestic population. This is happening from Germany to Poland to Sweden to Slovakia; where anyone who disagree with the ruling elite on the refugees is automatically labeled as racist, right-wing, fascist, and so on. After Polish votes two weeks ago which sided with Germany against Czech-Slovak-Hungarian position on emigration, the situation in Poland went so far that they even blocked discussions in largest Polish news media. Last week, there were thousands of people in Poland demonstrating against the government on the refugee crisis, but the coverage was nonexistent anywhere outside Poland, and very little mentioned in Polish media. This reminds me situation to Revolution of 1989 when I went to protests and our factory went into General strike against communist government, yet there was no news of it anywhere in the media, while one of the largest manifestation in the country history was just unfolding.

My gut feeling is that the refugee crisis will not only doom EU economically, but it will end the democratic system as we know it. European union is already disintegrating. Economies are still operate bellow 2008 economic peak even in such countries like Sweden, Finland, and Netherlands. Germany while it has balanced budget is deeply indebted and its economy depends on export. No country can afford generous welfare system to population that does not contribute. Something will cave, and I am betting on the economy, which will spill into widespread political crisis.

179

Largest amount of refugees since WW2 in Europe

by Powermetal4ever in

jw
friends

so i had a discussion with my mother about this, and she claims that because of this that: "we are surely living in the last days right now" while i must admit myself that the situation seem chaotic, i don't want to believe that it is the last days.

so question is, how do i face an opinion like that?

kaik

Majority of these refugees will never work. They will not integrate. Germany was not successful integrating Turks who are there today already in the second and third generation.

This is article from Switzerland: Swiss Parlament 91% of Eritrean refugees are on welfare 7 years later so are 88% of Turks. This is in country that has the lowest unemployment in Schengen. Refugees will cave German welfare system. Schengen already disintegrated. Train connection between Salzburg and Munich is closed, and its opening was postponed from Oct 4 to October 14. In Central Europe which plays a key role in logistics and delivery on manufacturing, the refugee problems caused tens of billions of dollars from lost freight and transportation. Hungary estimates it on 6 billions alone or 5% of GDP. Numbers from Croatia, Slovenia, and Serbia will be even worse.

Any upcoming elections will route out any current liberal nutcases or they will be cancelled as it happened in Sweden. Situation is turning from bad to worse. It is a really sad that ultraliberal, left leaning government attacked such basic principles as free press and election as is happening in Poland, Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovakia.

74

A call from family - Armageddon this month!

by kaik in

i very seldom receive a call from my jw siblings, i mean seldom.

i can count them on my hand in past 10 years.

while we talk about mom a lot and i am in touch with her, i was very surprised when i received this call.

kaik

I called my sis and she was at the field service and she did not have a time to talk to me. I bet she wont be doing much field service once November 1st arrives, and apathy and unfulfilled expectation settles in. This is a crazy circle: Indifference-Apathy-Hype-Tons of field work-Disappointment, repeat...

18

Basic JW Doctrine

by crolson in

jw
friends

hi, i am not a jw, but i am a student studying the jehovah's witnesses.

i was wondering if a jw could answer a few questions for me about your doctrine?.

where does your teaching come from (which writings)?.

kaik

Crolson, welcome on JWN board. Most of us here are ex-JWs who left organization recently or long time ago like myself 21 years ago. There is no universal consensus of JW doctrines and beliefs because they change all the time. The WT is not the same organization I grew up in in the 70's-90's, so what we studied and believed 25-35 years ago is no more relevant today in WT world. So whatever you miss on any doctrine, JWs are not afraid the loss of the knowledge, because a new doctrine will arrive shortly. I can only answer some of the questions that I remember from my WT life back then. There are probably others who can answer you better.

What is your God (Jehovah) like?: Creator a life giver and the only One who was always present
Where does your teaching come from (which writings)?: Bible interpreted through WT publications. In the 1980's it was later forbidden to study Bible on its own as it could lead to heresy.
Who is Jesus? Is he God or man or both? Did he save us from our sins?: Jesus is not God. He is only mediator for 144K and nobody else. He only save 144K. The big crowd is saved through association of 144K.
What does it mean to have salvation?: Nothing. Salvation for Big Crowd is achieved in the ability to ride through Armageddon, doing field work, and read WT publications. 144K goes to Heaven.
Who or what is the Holy Spirit? What is his function?: A force that created universe and guides FDS.
What happens after death? (both for faithful JWs and for those who don't believe): With exception of 144K, nothing. Death is sleep, a status of non-existence and lack of awareness. Evil people or faithful JWs of Big Crowd get resurrected as nothing in their past lives mattered. People destroyed by Jehovah do not get resurrected (flip-flop doctrine). 144K see their funeral on their way to Heaven.
What is sin? What can we do about it?: Sin is fall of man from Grace; inability to be good. Person is born damaged with a sin due disobedience of Adam. JWs believe in Original, Adamic sin. We cannot stop to sin, as it is part of our human nature, but we can mitigate the effect by doing field work, read WT publications, and attending KH and numerous conventions.

74

A call from family - Armageddon this month!

by kaik in

i very seldom receive a call from my jw siblings, i mean seldom.

i can count them on my hand in past 10 years.

while we talk about mom a lot and i am in touch with her, i was very surprised when i received this call.

kaik

I hearing this hype on "A" since June of this year. My cousins, mom, niece, siblings. They live in different cities and go to different KHs. So I am curious who is pushing this BS because I cannot find anything official. I can ask these two, I know them since HS. The elderette went to the same school as I did, and she is just two three years older then me. Her dad was extremely zealot, ultraconservative elder. Somewhere someone is steering up these expectations.

Meanwhile, Halloween is in couple weeks, and I am getting my decoration ready. Our neighborhood is overrun with kids, as everyone is Gen-X/Gen-Y. I wonder what my siblings will say in November 1st.

179

Largest amount of refugees since WW2 in Europe

by Powermetal4ever in

jw
friends

so i had a discussion with my mother about this, and she claims that because of this that: "we are surely living in the last days right now" while i must admit myself that the situation seem chaotic, i don't want to believe that it is the last days.

so question is, how do i face an opinion like that?

kaik

There were widespread anti-immigration demonstration in Poland in past several days. Katowice, PL.

People considers last week voting to accept refugees as a treason, and they are cursing Ewa Kopacz for succumbing to Merkel's pressure. In past several weeks, there were more than 100 arson attacks in Germany alone. The refugee crisis will undermine European politics and it will cause disintegration of European Union. I would not be surprised if something much worse would happen from this.

11

All these new changes and the 20/30 year olds

by All for show in

jw
friends

i see all these changes we are all shocked by.

if they are all true, and wtbts is hoping to distract the r&f with the ongoing claim 'the end is so near we need to preach'.

how long do you give the excitement to die down among the 20-30's crowd?

kaik

My niece is in her mid 20's. She is not baptized, but she started to study with my cousins to become JW. I am trying to talk her out of it, and I advised her to stop by at my mom, who is in the cult for 40+ years and she has all the publications with generation that will never die including this print:

I do not think that old publications would do this trick. Young people are vulnerable as anyone else. Young people go through various crisis, job loss, love failure, etc. and they may find WT message enticing. My niece started with bible study this year after she was in accident and my cousins started manipulating her physical weakness for WT benefit.

74

A call from family - Armageddon this month!

by kaik in

i very seldom receive a call from my jw siblings, i mean seldom.

i can count them on my hand in past 10 years.

while we talk about mom a lot and i am in touch with her, i was very surprised when i received this call.

kaik

I very seldom receive a call from my JW siblings, I mean seldom. I can count them on my hand in past 10 years. While we talk about mom a lot and I am in touch with her, I was very surprised when I received this call. My initial reaction was that something bad happened to my mom. She is scheduled for surgery in this week or so. So my sweat just poured. However, this call was not about mom or my nieces or nephews, but about Armageddon starting this month!

Anyway, I answer the call and my sibling told me that elder and his wife stopped by (I know them both since 1980's and they are just couple years older than me); was told that they must increasing a preaching activity as the END is eminent. The refugees are sign of the end, and Russian involvement in Syria is fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. For next 20 minutes I was subjected of various bible verses reading on fulfillment of big "A" in 101 year since Jesus started rule.

After all these preaching non-sense, I was asked if I am not afraid to be destroyed in next couple days! My answer was if I made it so far that long, I am really not afraid nor care much about it. So, I was interrupted, with question "You are really not interested in returning to Jah, WT, KH? I answered if they will continue worshiping WT after October 31? This pretty much ended the call.

So, I contacted my mom, and she told me that all KH speeches and publications are weaker, and dumber as years go by. And she started joking if big "A" will start during the surgery or afterwards. My niece told me that my JW cousins are vehemently insisting that the END is here. My niece lives 300KM apart from her mom, so she goes to KH, which indicates me that this is a new light. Does anyone encountered recently similar activity around the world?