Posts by Chap

9

If your conscience is troubling you - just deaden it.

the subject matter is a quote from by father-in-law, a staunch.

knows-no-better-all-his-life-a-jw, which although said with a touch of humour, contains a measure of credibility as to how jw's can justify a lot of their actions.

they have no conscience, or, if they do, they 'deaden' or numb it, to allow them to continue on their course.. just call me holey_cheeses.

Chap

Welcome aboard Cheeses. I believe that if I know who created my conscience, I know who created me. I believe the author of my conscience said this "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself." I find that if I am doing something that is in agreement with the above statement, there are no "bells and whistles" so to speak going off in my conscience. I also believe that as one deadens his or her conscience, the chances of that person going to heaven decrease. I know this may open a can of worms but I guess I'm ready.

66

All About Jesus Christ

by UnDisfellowshipped in

truth book (1981), page 52:.

of the resurrection to heavenly life, the bible says: it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.

*** the watchtower, march 15th 1954 issue, page 187 ***.

Chap

Jesus could have accepted Satan's offer, and then Jesus would have been made King over all the world without having to die on the Cross. However, without Jesus dying on the Cross, all people would still die in their sins, and go to Hell after they died. Not to mention that I don't even know what would have happened after God Himself worships Satan and goes against His own Word

I agree with the above statement. I have wondered what would have happened if Jesus Christ had not carried out God the Father's will. I think that eventually, everything would have ceased to exist because everything is held together by the Word of God and the Word of God would have been broken.

JLOB, When a person says "Jesus" I assume he is talking about Jesus Christ. Jesus and Christ cannot be separated because they are one in the same. I do not quite understand what you are saying when you say Christians erroneously worship Jesus. Consider the following:

Matthew 16:13-17 King James Version
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? [14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. [15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

59

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history!

by happysunshine in

.

is there any basis for these claims?.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

Chap

I cannot think of one country that was founded totally on goodness but it can be argued that the authors of America's founding documents put their concept of God in their writings. If you read the history of George Washington, you know that he feared God. Patrick Henry may have been a born again Christian. The three branches of government seem parallel to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There was no government in history that turned the tables in the manner that the USA works where the one (or few) is supposed to serve the many. This allowed people to be free to worship as they pleased and to invent things that raised the standard of living. America than became a dominant country in a little over 100 years. We now enjoy things that the world never knew and I argue that if Jesus Christ hadn't lived on earth, these things would not be.

If you had to choose between "Middle Age Christianity" and America that better exemplified the teachings of Jesus Christ, which would you choose? I know what my choice would be.

59

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history!

by happysunshine in

.

is there any basis for these claims?.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/index.html

Chap

I saw on the jesusneverexisted site that the Apostle Paul stated lying was ok. Romans 3:7 was used. This was clearly taken out of context to falsely prove what the people who wrote the site want to believe. I do not know about the other person. Here is the text in context. Judge for yourselves.

Romans 3:1-8 King James Version
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. [3] For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? [4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. [5] But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) [6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? [7] For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? [8] And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

53

Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?

by Chap in

a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.

i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.

in a book called can christianity be proven?

Chap

Luke has proven to be a far more reliable historian than Josephus. I'd be interested to see the rest of Josepus' work on the subject since I quoted all the author of the book I have stated.

Abaddon, The reason I started this thread is because I thought the three guys that are doing the seminar could answer the questions you have better than I could. The seminar is an hour and fifty minutes long so it should touch on your questions. Also Hank Hanegraaffe has a new book out called The Third Day available at his website www.equip.org

28

Causing divisions is doing God's will!

by rebel in

i was speaking to hubby tonight.

i was explaining why i can't and won't go back to the kh.

i tried to explain my feelings as best i could without annoying him or making him feel upset.

Chap

rebel,

I was never a JW. I don't know if this line of reasoning will help but gently try this. Ask him if something is true like "is the sky blue?" Try asking him questions until you get him to admit that everything that exists is "the truth." You may know this scripture from memory. John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV) (underlining mine)

Ask him to explain how Jesus is not claiming to be none other than God and not Michael the Archangel as Watchtower claims. You may also ask him how the watchtower is not "disowning" Jesus by lying about who he says he is. Another scripture is John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Here Jesus claims to have existed forever. Notice it doesn't say he was created before Abraham. I hope this helps and gives you strength.

You also may want to take the strategy of going to the KH. See 1st Peter 3. By doing this and your husband knowing that you think the organization is a lie might eat him up on the inside. This might take time and a lot of patience but it might work better than arguing with him all the time. He will not be able to say that you are divisive. Remember, God sees all and you need not fill out time cards. Hehe.

53

Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?

by Chap in

a while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.

i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.

in a book called can christianity be proven?

Chap

A while ago, I think Abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for Christ's resurection in response to something I wrote. I believe I stated that if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.

In a book called Can Christianity Be Proven? Beyond Reasonable Doubt! by Robert J. Morgan, the author states that Josephus described Jesus as a wise man that was crucified and

"on the third day he appeared to them restored to life...and the sect of Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."

Morgan got this info from Dr. Mireille Hadas-Lebel, ancient history scholar and professor at the National Institute of Oriental Languages and Civilizations in Paris.

There is a broadcast seminar to appear at many churches on Palm Sunday afternoon if anyone is interested. This seminar will be given by Hank Hanegraaff, Mark Mittelberg and Lee Strobel. I don't know which churches will broadcasting this and I know mine isn't so I had to contact the company. The church I attend isn't broadcasting the seminar. I plan on going and taking notes. To find a place that is broadcasting the seminar, contact CCN and tell them the area code in which you live so they can search that way.

For More Information contact:
Church Communication NetworkPhone: (800) 321-6781
www.ccnonline.net

More info about the seminar can be found at Hank Hanefraaff's website www.equip.org

P.S. The head of the organization to which I belong knows everything so you don't have to tell me if you attend a broadcast of this seminar. I will not be handing in a card.

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

I have heard it said from the pulpit that God created out of nothing. I have also heard it said (from the same pulpit) that God is omnipresent. If God is omnipresent, (present at all places at all times) than nothing does not exist unless parts of God do not exist. So it seems to me that God did not create out of nothing but out of what exists or himself. (Side note; would the proper term be themself? I know this is not an English word but it seems to be the proper term.)

I have heard it said from the pulpit that God exists outside of time. Since time is measured in terms of infinity (without beginning or end) than is it possible for God to exist outside of themself?

More tomorrow (maybe)

22

America is Babylon the Great?...What are the consequences to be

by Brummie in

this belief is a growing phenomena since 9/11, i did a search on google after someone mentioned on this board that they believe america is btgreat and it came up with pages in support of this view!

this belief is also being pushed by false prophets like jack van imp, he also claimed that osma was the anti-christ shortly after 9/11.

the consequences of pushing this doctrine will cause more fanatics to justify attacks against the usa or promote the belief "they deserve it", how sick.

Chap

I believe the Bible is referring to Nebuchadnezzer's Babylon which is in Iraq as Saint Satan has pointed out. Saddam Hussein has been rebuilding that city since he took power in 1979. There are supposed orders on clay tablets written by Nebuchadnezzer or one of his top associates to rebuild Babylon when/if it got destroyed. Saddam Hussein refers to Nebuchadnezzer as a fellow Arab so he is not sparing any expense to build the city even though it contains pagan idols and such which totally goes against the Muslim religion.

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

Farkel said:

Let me ask you a question, then: can "everything" exist if the only set is "nothing?"

I see two possibilities. There can be "it exists" or "it does not exist" We are in the "subset" as you call it, "it exists" which can understand "nothing" as a concept. We are not in the "subset" "it does not exist." If "nothing" exists, than the concept "everything" would not exist. The concept "nothing" would not exist either.