right before i disassociated myself last march, i sent an email to quite a number of jw's that contained only a link to an "apostate" website that had been instrumental in my seeing the the truth about the wt.. well, nobody responded to it except for one person, a guy who i hadn't had any contact with my last year in.
he started out with "yikes, do you know i'm disfellowshipped?
" he then went on for several paragraphs defending the org, how loving the brothers were when they disfellowshipped him .
Who is worse the fool or the one who argues with one?
You are no coward.
Do what is right for you. There are millions upon millons of people who choose to subscribe to ludicrous belifes. Help those who are willing to accept it. Those who reject your help...Move on from them. Someday they will see that it was you who had their best intrests at heart.
why do humans search and/or reach for god?.
if they are honest with themselves it is because have a fear or death or of non-existence.
or they draw "power" from god.
Donkey,
There is a book, "Why Won't God Go Away." Maybe, according to it humans are hardwired to believe.
"So what does God have to offer you?" (Loaded selfish question)
I aspire to better myself. I always want salvation just beyond my reach. I enjoy the journey as much as anything that I have; anything I have ever done.
I heard a prayer once that went like this "Lord help me to live my life in such I way that when I die even the undertaker is sad."
I also live my life so that when I have finished my journey I can look back and have lived enough to be satisfied.
My son has experienced the death of loved ones 5 times in the last 2 years. Twice he saw it happen. Once he saw me do CPR and once he watched me do nothing but hold the hand of a man as he died. His stepgradmother died last month and he and I attended the funeral. He had grown quite scared that I would die and his mother would die and there would be no one to care for him or his sister. He wanted me to promise him that I will never die. I explained to him that everyone dies. But, I plan to be with him everyday that I can and I love him with all my heart. I told him that if I die and Mom dies then he has his uncles and Grandparents that will take care of him and he is going to be OK. I told him that it is up to us to help each other.
Donkey it does not matter what we believe or don't believe. What we do or don't do. We all share the same fate. We all in the end wind up together. I have no illusions about that. But between now and then I plan to touch as many hearts as will listen. Helping is better than hurting. I am never happier than when I am kind and helpful to other people. I know there is evil and pain in this world. I have seen death head on and I wish it was not part of it. But without death life would soon have little meaning. I trust in that the omnipresent force some call God by whatever name. That everything is going to be OK. I accept that because I am not afraid of there not being a tomorrow, in this life or the next.
doing the "fade" thing is like a slow, painful torture to me.
i have to do the fade because of my current circumstances (wife being a jw but starting to doubt/both our families very strong jw's).
it makes me angry at having wasted so much time and energy (and money) being a jw.
Wolfy,
I'm so sorry for your situation. I wish we were closer for coffee. I am not in your situation but I had to travel much of the same road with my wife and her family. It is so much harder when you have multi generations that will gang up on you. If you are like me you don't take well to bullies. That trait did not help me in my situation. It is so clear how much you love your wife. I love mine too. I helped my wife to get herself totally free by standing my ground even when it came to not backing down to her father. At the time she was stunned. No one had ever stood up to him in any way and not been hit for it. No one had ever argued with him and won the argument. I did both at once. No one ever told her parents No. No is a word that jw's do not seem to understand.
It was quite liberating to get free and we have a closer relationship now. Steve Hassan has a new book out "Releasing the Bonds." I recommend it and have read it. It showed me all the things that I did horribly wrong with my jw family. I was just being who I am but, many of the things I did and said are part of the books programs. I am not telling you to do a SIA with your wife. That would be your choice. For me, although I have no regrets and could not have realistically gotten clear and free of the jw moronic way of having to live when you are out in reality, but your still tethered to the dock by family. I would have known that what I was saying will cause reactions A or B by a person that is under cult mind control and don't take it personally. I always did. I let my family make me feel like I was the one that was somehow in the wrong. It drove me to where sometimes I just wanted to leave. I wanted to leave before I got left. Well, I'm glad I stayed and stood my ground. It is worth it. My wife is, was, and always will be worth it. The jw's power is not legitimate. It is the fake power of a pathetic tyrant. That they have power in the sense of fear that they could divide your family so you had better remain subjugated to them shows how they are really devils.
I do believe that your love for your wife is more real than any amount of promises that the wt has to offer. God willing she will see that too.
Edited by - Iwasyoungonce on 1 December 2002 3:34:7
wih the permission of simon, i would like to start a thread to act as a collection of thought, quotes and miscellany on atheism and agnosticism.
there are so many other threads on this subject but no one place which one can go to on here.
i have much to share - enjoy and contribute with me please.give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith.
Can god have power without the threat of punishment? - Donkey 2002
Are you asking about control?
If you are a subscriber of the nelism clan or the order of the atheists then are you your own god? If so then rule responsibly. And, don't blame anyone/everyone else when you screw up. (like Adam did.)
'religion' after the witnesses?
is it possible?
any comments?
I think that when someone has been so abused by religion it is hard to trust again. In the JW setting everyone turns on you and is trying to screw you any way they can. Even years after you leave. How can you go to that (another religion) which you have hated for so long without looking like and feeling like a hypocrite? I think that the pride alone would be enough to keep many at bay. And unfortunately the jw's are not the only religious crooks out there. I can say though when you overcome your (the) fear of the unknown it is a beautiful thing. It is like a big weight being lifted off you. Not every church is palatable by far but there are so many good ones. If you are looking for what is wrong in every religion and every person then you will never be disappointed. And you will probably never find one that is acceptable for you to express YOUR beliefs and YOUR love that you have to give. But, "IF" you look for the good things in religions and people, and work on improving yourself (Pull the plank out of your eye) then you might start to find a way to be really happy. And that is a good thing.
2 other things I believe.
Faith is not the same thing as religion.
God is bigger than any one religion.
going door to door???????
i remember the jw's thinking this was a great chance to reach those we normally wouldn't have.
i hated going out in service on the holidays!!!!!
Prostalatizing on Christmas??? <sigh>
Never mind.
when a witness talks about a person not being "in the truth", does that get to you?
or if they self-righteously proclaim that "at least, they're in the truth and not worldly", does that push any buttons?
(((Minimus)))
For the record you are the propagandist that everyone loves to read and respond to...Me too. (and, that is not meant as an insult).
To your question. No, not at all. The truth to a cultie is fluid. It all depends on what the leader (ever watch Toy Story) wants the truth to be at that point and time.
For me, the "truth" has to do with what is right and what is wrong. I understand that "humanistic truth" does have to do with my understanding of things. But I look to get all the facts from all worthy sources to make my decisions and to relate my understandings. To quote Einstein "I don't need to be right but, I would like to know "if" I am right." It (my truths) are not about control or issuing/canceling a license to be believable.
A Jehovah Witness will have ask permission to be truthful. A Jehovah Witness could be punshed for being truthful. On that bases alone I am not a Jehovah Witness.
(Maybe a good thread would be 1001 reasons why NOT to be a Jehovah Witness.)
my last attempts at posting were to no avail so i'm just going to test this out first and they edit and post something else.-it worked.. i have been reading a lot of the material on this website and find most of it interesting.
i'm still a witness but have some questions about bible/doctrine that haven't been answered to my satisfaction.
it seems that when i discuss things with people (i.e witness elders) they more or less don't listen to my arguements.
Welcome to the forum Kril & Bootsie. I hope you explore around for awhile. My 2 pennies are true friends would not leave you.
it has almost always been my experience that when encountering a jehovah witness with sword drawn to defend relgion the first demand is to establish what clan (relgion) i have been branded with.
thus the nit picking of my faith can take place.
like a tit for tat.
Spanner,
You question " I was just wondering in what capacity you have been affected by the JW religion?"
None.
i have been having an ongoing discussion with a friend about spousal abuse.
she has come to accept and believe that i have never hit a woman in my life, but feels that i am a rarity.
i contend that i am not, that although too many men still hit their wives, they are in the minority.
Sentinal, Lin, all you guys who had to endure all of it. I am so sorry.
Jay
