Reach for God

donkey

Why do humans search and/or reach for God?

If they are honest with themselves it is because have a fear or death or of non-existence. Or they draw "power" from God. A small few (when they are truly honest) admit that they search for a God to explain existence. Why do so many prisoners suddenly "find God"? Is it to gain control.

In my opinion, the concept of God was needed to offer a way for people to organize things which they failed to understand. True we probably have new things today which we fail to understand, but we have precedent for organizing processes to explain and discover these things. Previously, discovery was discouraged by the churches and zealots who knew they would lose power if people surrendered their superstition.

One person I wrote to explained their reasoning on this subject as follows:

The attraction of theism, as opposed to naturalism, is the institute of petition; namely, that mankind can petition the gods to change fate, thereby having some control over fate, whereas under naturalism fate is blind and cannot be controlled. Sincere prayer, and belief in its effectiveness, is the clearest outward sign of theistic belief. The core of theism is a belief of external sovereignty over fate, whereas the core of naturalism is lack of belief in such.

So what does God have to offer you?

JT

In my opinion, the concept of God was needed to offer a way for people to organize things which they failed to understand.

i agree and when believers can't explain something that you ask them they fall back on the god is a mystery or god's thought are higher than man or my all time favorite

"YOU JUST GOTTA BELIEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

donkey

I must be boring or egotistical (the only one replying to my threads). Nevertheless, in case someone is interested here we go again...

Taken from "The Joyous Science" - Nietzsche

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!"...
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed himyou and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns?"
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.
"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves?... Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?..."
Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners... "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the most distant starsand yet they have done it themselves."

Freddy concluded that the Christian notion of God was dead. Did God effectively die too?

donkey

One of my personal favorites comes from Epicurus who put it this way:

Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?

and again:

If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another

and finally

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

onacruse

Personally, I now find considerable merit in the sociological/anthropological explanations about the search for God and development of religions. Some thoughts from Religion in Sociological Perspective (Keith Roberts, Dorsey Press, 1984):

"Why is religion universal? Since giving up the search for origins, social scientists [Durkheim, Malinowski, Radcliffe-Brown, etc] have focused on the function of religion. The term function refers to the human and societal needs that are satisfied by a particular social pattern or belief...all basic human needs or drives must be satisfied in a way that does not cause social chaos [cites sexual behaviour as an example]...Durkheim maintained that God stands in the same relationship to worshipers as does a society to its members...God transcends the individual in power and scope...Similarly, society transcends the individual in power, scope, and longevity...A thoroughly socialized person is one who wants to do that which is necessary for the society to survive."

Notice that one could here substitute Society (as in Watchtower) for "society."

Just a thought.

Craig

Blueblades

Hi! DONKEY.I'm honest with myself.Why do I search and reach for God?Its not because I fear death or non-existence.I search and reach for God because I fear the unknown.How can one prepare or defend one's self from the unknown.For example: Who really knows what happens when our life ceases to exist and we die?What is death?There are many opposing views in answering these questions.Who is to say whose view is the correct one?Now I realize that my searching and reaching for God presupposes that God actually exists.Self-preservation wants this to be true.Not only for myself, but for my loved ones too.And for you too! So,Donkey,can you help me get some kind of closure on this subject?I am open to everyones thoughts on this topic that you have raised.Blueblades

donkey

Blueblades - honest people are the best people!! Thanks.

I have started a thread called "Donkey's never ending atheism thread" http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=41460&site=3

I appreciate it if you join in on our journey. But I like the Epicurian response to your questions (questions which all of us ask over and over).

Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?

Asses and lasses....what a combo

Buster

I've always felt that a search for God is largely the search for someone to unload the difficult decisions onto - to have someone to share the responsibilities of our own choices.

Blueblades

Hi! BUSTER,For me it is more than having someone share the responsibility of my own choices.Its about sharing a life that is eternal if at all possible.Blueblades

Double Edge

Why do humans search and/or reach for God? If they are honest with themselves it is because have a fear or death or of non-existence. Or they draw "power" from God. A small few (when they are truly honest) admit that they search for a God to explain existence.

Of course that's the 'truth' as Donkey sees it, from Donkey's own life experiences. Everyone has different experiences and what their 'truth' is can differ vastly from yours. Putting 'God' aside for a moment, there are so many opinions on what a human being is. Is he/she only physical or is there, as some people have experienced a spirit connected with the physical being? Now I'm not trying to start another thread, because there will be different opinions as to whether 'spirit' exists, again, it boils down to the individuals own experiences or lack of them. Try to explain an 'atom' to the scientist of the 1870's. Of course, they existed, you just couldn't see them or prove their existence.

Point is, opinions of God, Spirit, or whatever is 'unseen' or 'unprovable' will always differ because people have had different experiences and neither side will be able to communicate those experiences adequately to satisfy the other. We all look at the other's points of view with "Are they dense?... Can't they see what I see?" IMHO

Reach for God

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