when i would go out in service and discuss the issue of "universal sovreignty" i always wondered why in the back of my mind why the angels needed to have proven to them that jehovah was worthy of worship alone and not satan.
no doubt they would have known he was aall powerful.
he created everything... and most importantly he was god.
@new hope - I don't go anymore... We are on a drop dead fade. I have not been in months neither has she...
I just ignore their calls at this point and spend our evenings with the kids chillin smoking the occasional cigar and watching lifetime movies till like 2 in the morning.
I just still get mad over the amount of time I have waisted and this is often the best place to let that out LOL
so, here i am almost 5 years after the big exit.
life during this time has been tumultous, joyous and sometimes full of tears.
got new friends, social circle moving well (i am an outgoing person), new girlfriend (after messy divorce of jw wife), own business.. but i knew something would come back and bite me into my rear-end:.
Same problem at FIRST.
The thing is you can say you did anything you wanted to while you were there. No one is going to check and if they do WTS does not in anyway tell anyone anything about past volunteers. I worked in cleaning and for my first job interview I told them that I managed a team of six people blah blah blah... which I kind of did ina round about way as I passed out "Neutral cleaner" spray bottles and Terry Cloth rags when we did lights and pipes.
WHo cares if anyone on there is a witness and says you didn't. Just don't accept that connection.
when i would go out in service and discuss the issue of "universal sovreignty" i always wondered why in the back of my mind why the angels needed to have proven to them that jehovah was worthy of worship alone and not satan.
no doubt they would have known he was aall powerful.
he created everything... and most importantly he was god.
its almost funny yet so so sad that a grown man or woman with any thinking ability never lets these things register. They are always in your mind, but get pushed to the back. So far back that you can make common sense just not matter anymore. Common sense becomes human or independent thinking which is evil and flawed so therefore its wrong.
I sometimes feel like punching myself in the face over the choices I made. The one positive aspect is if it wasnt for the WTS I would never have met my loving wife who has told me, "F*&k it - let's just not go anymore".
when i would go out in service and discuss the issue of "universal sovreignty" i always wondered why in the back of my mind why the angels needed to have proven to them that jehovah was worthy of worship alone and not satan.
no doubt they would have known he was aall powerful.
he created everything... and most importantly he was god.
When I would go out in service and discuss the issue of "Universal Sovreignty" I always wondered why in the back of my mind why the angels needed to have proven to them that Jehovah was worthy of worship alone and not Satan. No doubt they would have known he was aall powerful. He created everything... and most importantly he was GOD. What more proof did they need besides the fact that he said so?
If you were to ask any kid on the street of talking age if GOD should be the ruler of the entire universe or Satan I can almost garauntee that 95% would probably say God. The explanation WTS gives never really brought me any comfort and sort of makes you angry when you think about it
i had a conversation yesterday with my wife, who seems to think every good thing that happens to her just has to be jehovah, and every bad thing, she just knows is satan.
this irritates me to no end.
i told her yesterday that i have trouble praying to have relatively petty thing resolved in my life, meanwhile around the world, many people are raped mutilated, tortured, and killed everyday.
But Laverite - God obviously will not answer the sickly ychild dying of Malnutrition because
1. He is not a Christian so God can't help or listen to his prayerrs
i am thinking that maybe i missed this discussion or something.
now for years in the org i never ever paid attention to the article that says jesus is the mediator for the 144000 alone.
yesterday talking to my 70+ year old dad he got violently angry with me and threw his cane at me because he said i was a liar.. .
@Bobcat - I fully agree. I was being sarcastic in response to someone else LOL.
My bad LOL
where did russell get the notion that the 144k are a literal number, and that they are the rulers in heaven?
what do other religions believe this group to represent?.
what did john really mean?.
But why do we really have to think that God cares about squared numbers etc... 12*12000
Really is he that concerend about numbers? As if only exactly 144000 jews or humans in general deserve to be in heaven. Is it a first come first serve basis so that the guy who was 134,723 was not as much of a christian as some guy who is like 174,839 in the line of christians who is more spiritually in touch with god - but since he was born later it doesn't matter?
What are the real qualifications anyway? It seems like its all just a man made thought process if it is suppose to be a literal number. I just have no clue why God would work this way. What is more - why exactly will perfect people on earth need to be ruled over by 144001 others. Why isn't Jesus enough? It seems like this was like the opening of John said "Signs and symbols" as opposed to trying to pick out the few literal numbers that match your own desires.
The passage even mentions 12,000 from each of the various tribes... so EXACTLY 12,000. Is God really that concerned with that level of precision with HUMAN NUMBERS?
i am thinking that maybe i missed this discussion or something.
now for years in the org i never ever paid attention to the article that says jesus is the mediator for the 144000 alone.
yesterday talking to my 70+ year old dad he got violently angry with me and threw his cane at me because he said i was a liar.. .
Yeah... why would anyone want to have a personal relationship with the guy who died for ya? After all its not like Jesus did anything for anyone.
i am thinking that maybe i missed this discussion or something.
now for years in the org i never ever paid attention to the article that says jesus is the mediator for the 144000 alone.
yesterday talking to my 70+ year old dad he got violently angry with me and threw his cane at me because he said i was a liar.. .
Well Rat please remember that some peoples journey with religion is not merely about being saved...It's about having a personal relationship with Jesus and knowing that through his sacrifice he also plays a major role in our day to day communique with God. Yes Jesus means something to them besides JUST A SACRIFICE that we benefit from.
That might not mean anythign to you - but it does to many. It might sound lame to you and that is YOUR opinion. But please do not think that your request for me to stop making any kind of post will be adhered to. Sorry but you don't have that kind of authority.
ok so i have been actively fading but my question to all you faders with family.
if one just fades doesn't it just look like to your kids that you have just become spiritually weak?
i mean aren't they my kids just going to ask their mother why i'm not going in time, and that will give her a chance to explain things the way she wants?
My children are 9 and the other is 5. My 9 year old doesn't give a crap. On tuesday she said, "Sometimes its nice to just stay home. We can talk about Jehovah here and its more fun". The 5 year old has no clue one way or the other.
Just take your children to meet other kids in the park or community you live in like any other sane person would. Let them know that worshipping Jehovah from home with your family is fine because Jehovah is happy with it. Once I stopped going to the meetings my wife was concerned for about 1 month, but during that time I was extra sweet to her... not as a means to be coniving but I had more time to do stuff for her and she appreciated the new me.
I also showed her some evidence of watchtower falsehoods and lies. The child abuse stuff infuriated her to the point that she could not take it.
On top of that when people call to the house they only asked for me and not her, which made her realize they only cared about me because I was a former elder. She saw the hypocrisy. Truthfully if you have young children they will be easy to bring along - it was the wife in my instance that was scary.
