Posts by undercover

14

Advice help

by Undercoverbrother in

but i have been undercover for about 3 years.

recently i stopped going and faded(close to a year without stepping into the hall) .

an old flame of mine (who is active witness) came back into the picture.

welcome fellow undercover guy. I too was 'undercover' as I faded, but over time as I realized that the WTS had no real power over me, I quit fearing what elders, or even the odd JW said or did. The only authority they have is what you allow them to have.

You indicated that you're out, not attending meetings, etc, yet you're worried about elders coming a-knocking. Are you worried about your friends KH reputation should she be found out, or more worried about your getting found out?

Like everyone's already said, no two witnesses, no confession, nothing they can do. Deny deny deny. Or better yet, tell them to mind their own business, should they ask you questions. You're out, you owe them nothing.

23

Interesting article about the evidence of the Jewish Exodus

by cappytan in

jw
friends

the reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews were ever enslaved in egypt.

yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source.

i'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources.

undercover

There is evidence of Jericho falling as well as surrounding cities however hundreds of years earlier than the supposed time of the Exodus.

An interesting tidbit about Jericho I learned just recently...

It predates the date of Noah's flood, and - the date of Adam's creation.

Amazing how a city existed before mankind existed {insert rolleyes emoticon here}

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

To address the 'Trump is catering to evangelicals' thoughts -

Yes, he is, and to racists, and misogynists, and the uneducated, and so and so forth. While he claims to be Christian, and caters to Bible thumpers, what has spooked some JWs I know is his comments on Muslims. If he's willing to persecute an entire Islamic group, what's to stop him from turning on other religions he doesn't like. Yes, I know, illogical, and unfounded on anything tangible. But we're dealing with people who enjoy a good persecution complex, and actually believe the world is out to get them (never realizing that most people don't give a flying fig about em). I'm curious if anyone else has witnessed (excuse that word) JW family expressing similar paranoia.

Talesin: re voter apathy. Having been raised a JW, and never paying attention to politics or voting as a JW, even when out, I find myself detached from the whole spectacle. I wish I were a little more civic minded, but I'm just too cynical and skeptical. I find myself agreeing with George Carlin when it comes to voting. We really don't have a choice. The government was bought and paid for a long time ago, and we're just fooling ourselves if we think we have a real choice. It's just an illusion of choice. And in today's world, American politics has become a reality TV show, and a TV reality star is writing the book on how to win at it.

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

*8 billion people. Tried to edit, but it wouldn't take

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

Where, exactly, does the Bible say that government(s) will turn on religion? I mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from Revelation as such?

With one megalomaniac leading the GOP race for nomination to vie for President of the USA, I've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three. And not just among liberals and Democrats - but also among some JWs.

I've heard more than once, something like this, 'if he wins, this may be the start of government turning on religion' or similar. I've heard all the Hitler comparisons, and yea, he's scary to a degree, but Hitler, not hardly. So if the WT god didn't come to the rescue his 'true worshipers' in WWII, why would the prospect of a TV reality star getting headlines give them cause to think that now he might act? Sure, I hate reality TV as much as the next fellow, but not enough to destroy 8 million people.

But, OTOH, when the election is over, and someone else is in office, we can sit back and chuckle as the Armageddon is once again put back on hold, and dubs can go back to worrying about their field service hours, and where to stop for break...

38

Fading is never 100% successful is it?

by nicolaou in

mum phoned last night to see how we all are.

after fifteen years away from meetings and my old jw life you'd think my fade could be called 'successful' and for the most part it is.

.. my resentment at being lied to and having wasted over thirty years of my life has left me like a glass of water full to the brim, it only takes a tap to make a mess.

undercover

I don't think you're 100% out of it, even if you DFd or DAd...if you have family still involved.

I'm faded, and have experiences similar to yours from time to time. I have siblings who are DFd, and they from time to time get dragged into arguments and confrontations.

I have a DFd friend, who has cut off all ties with anything related to JW, but yet still has family active in the faith, and on occasion has to endure their meddling (however well intentioned on their part it may be).

I think this is true of anyone who has left a controlling atmosphere, be it religious, secular, or parental. You know what you know, you've put it behind you, yet from time to time you are reminded of the past, and have to deal with it in the present.

13

Cuban Cigars

by OnTheWayOut in

so mrs. otwo and i see something on television about cuban cigars.

she asks me if they are allowed into the united states.

i told her that i believe there is a softening of the rules, but they are still difficult to get.

undercover

Cognitive dissonance is strong in this one...

I know the feeling. One day my wife is as 'worldly' as any of our 'worldly' neighbors or family. It's almost as if she has finally decided that JWs are a crank religion. Then the next day, some comment about the 'last days' or prophecy being fulfilled, or some other JW tainted thinkspeak.

161

I am leaving the JW's . I am alone and scared. Advice and help needed please

by scared and lonely in

i am sorry that on my first post i am asking for help and advice but i am at my wits end.

i have been brought up a witness all my life and it is all i know.

i am an ex-elder and pioneer and i don't know anybody outside of the congregation.. i have been unhappy for so long and wanted to leave.

undercover

I have been unhappy for so long and wanted to leave. I tried to slip away but they would't have it and now that I have expressed doubts they are pushing for me to disassociate myself because they think I am apostate which I am not.

I've got news for you... yes, you are an apostate. Or at least well on your way to being one.

But don't let that bother you. It's just a word. It's a word that some religions use to keep fear instilled in their members, but in the end it doesn't really mean anything harmful will come to you. Once you come to terms with having been a member of a cult religion and you have fully escaped, then being called an apostate by current members of the cult will be a badge of honor to some degree. Embrace it and wear it with pride.

29

List of reasons why the witnesses are wrong.

by atomant in

l thought it might be a good idea to have a quick reference post to remind people of the faults within the jw org.what do others think.

?

undercover

WT doctrine: Adam created 6,000 years ago. Noah's world wide flood happened 4,000 years ago (give or take a few hundred).

Science: evidence shows man has been around far far longer than 6,000 years

Science: no evidence for a world wide flood.

If you can't get out of the first few chapters of Genesis with the doctrine intact, what's the point of going any further?

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

undercover

I remember as a teenager, way back in the 70s, during the era that the earth shattering news erupted that rock bands were putting subliminal lyrics into their songs, we had a circuit assembly that had a part on music.

The speaker railed against all modern pop music, be it rock, soul, disco, even the standards like Sinatra. He specifically mentioned the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Queen and other bands that supposedly had subliminal messages in them. So subliminal you could hear them if you played the record backwards. I mean, duh, how subliminal is it, if it you can hear it just playing the record different...but I digress.

While the elder ranted and raved about the evils of demonic music us youths were being led astray by, someone - I never figured out how it started, but we assumed it was someone connected to the program - started passing out lists of popular music acts/personalities, complete with reasons why 'true Christians' would not own records by these artists, or even listen to their music on the radio.

All your tops of the pops were there: Beatles - drugs, sex, Maharishi; Stones - drugs, sex, sympathy for the devil; Zeppelin - drugs, sex, rocknroll; Doors - drugs, demonism; Queen: homosexuality

But also listed were less conspicuous acts: Eagles - demonism (Hotel Calif); Earth, Wind & Fire - spiritism; and then there were singer/songwriters, like Paul Simon, Jimmy Buffett, and even James Taylor. Why James Taylor, you ask? Well...I'll tell ya, and I ain't makin this shit up... young Mr. Taylor spent time in a mental health hospital. And you know what that means, of course. It's a doorway to spiritism and demonism. Yes, Fire and Rain is about demons and Country Road is actually the Highway to Hell. Carolina in his mind is obviously a demon named Carolina.

Seriously, someone thought that because James Taylor sought out help, that his music was inspired by demons, and therefore unfit for Christians. And my parents bought it up, and made us kids purge our record collections.

Stupid cult.