Phizzy said
In fact I rather feel that the evidence is stronger that if god exists,then he is Evil God.
What's his name? Satan? 1John 5:19
70wksfyrs-
what evidence did Phizzy ACTUALLY produce?
Monsieur
JoinedPosts by Monsieur
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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19
If God knows how we are wired, Why punish people for being gay?
by suavojr ini just finished reading this story on yahoo, two comments stick out and cannot comprehend why can't we just show true love and stop beign hurtful to our flesh and blood.
so yes, if god made us and knows how we are wired how can god kill a person for beign gay when they did not choose to be gay?
why the more religious a person is, the more fanatical?.
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Monsieur
The more a theistic person studies human behavior and the reasons why we do what we do, the less likely a God has anything to do with our way of life. But this false premise still does not cancel the the concept of a God. Only our perception of a God simply changes with the knowledge of the moment. That to me is the challenge of a believer, trying to make sense of book that is looked at as infallible.
Suavojr-
The concept of 'God' and the perception of said 'God' is one and the same.
Discard whatever notion you have been taught 'God' is (angry old man in heaven dispensing punishment and suffering) and the word 'God' will start to take on all new meanings. Interestingly, the Bible makes it clear what God is all along- God IS Love, above all things. And if YOU are made in that image of Love and you don't hate gay or lesbian people, then what makes anybody believe that God DOES hate them?
The reality does not contradict what is written Biblically of 'God' concerning gay people. There is no record of any fiery punishment descending on a gay person anywhere, no matter how hard you look for it.
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46
Lurkers and Apologists, can you please explain.....
by DATA-DOG in..from the scriptures why.... 1) material wealth is a sign of jehovah's blessing in our modern day.. 2) why jehovah blesses the growth of chicken populations, but allows active jehovah's witnesses to die in field service, or on the way to conventions, and on the way to celebrate the memorial?
3) why jesus is not your mediator?
bibles and a concordance only.
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Monsieur
datadog,
you are confusing what the Bible actually says about God and what you've been taught God is. This is why your questions don't seem to have a logical answer.
But apply what the Bible REALLY states who or what God is and it becomes a little clearer.
Above all else (meaning that God can be many things), the Bible states that God IS Love. (not a man in heaven sitting on a throne, angry at people, but concerned with chickens.) God IS love, and conversely Love IS God. I do not need to define what love is since I am sure you know exactly what it is. But as you describe it in your mind, know that you are describing God. After all, that is what the Bible says God is.
1) Material wealth is a sign of Jehovah's blessing in our modern day.
If you've become wealthy materially, you can be rest assured that you've been blessed. Who or what has blessed you? Retrace your steps to see how you got to be wealthy, and you'll find your answer.
2) Why Jehovah blesses the growth of chicken populations, but allows active Jehovah's Witnesses to die in field service, or on the way to Conventions, and on the way to celebrate the Memorial?
Here you are implying that 'God' has made a decision, to spare chickens yet kill innocent people. The Bible states that God is perfect and shows no favoritism (to chickens in your example). The Bible also states that 'unforseen occurrences' are a reality. Which is it?
3) Why Jesus is not your mediator?
mediator - a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between. - from wikipedia The Bible doesn't contradict the definition of a mediator above. I know these questions might not have been directed at me specifically, but i wanted to get involved in the conversation all the same.
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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Monsieur
stating an opinion on Santa holds as much water as stating an opinion on the Biblical Jesus regardless of what the world thinks of them. (may i add that folks like Bill oReilly have in fact defended Santa and have demanded that we respect him, look it up on youtube. it's there.)
But let's use your argument and let's take the Devil for example. Plenty of people belive in the Biblical Satan, yet no one has ever taken of picture with him, dined with him, held a conversation with him. But they swear he exists. He is in fact blamed for the evil in this world. (a lot more evil than what Jesus is attributed with)
Yet how is arguing for/against Satan, any different than arguing for/against Jesus? Without evidence of either, WHAT is the argument?
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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Monsieur
Monsieur - The Jesus portrayed in the bible is an egocentric family-destroying cult-leader.
How closely the Jesus portrayed in the bible resembles the historical Jesus is a different question.
Why is that difficult?
cofty
it isn't, im only stressing here that you are stating an opinion on a FICTITIOUS character.
much the same as if i said 'Santa Claus is a gift giving fat man whipping reindeer left and right on Christmas day'.
in other words, it's a non-argument since the character doesnt even EXIST, and thus it is the epitome of absurdity to blame a fictitious character for the actions of those that do belong in a harmful cult.
Now, you mention a 'historical' character named Jesus. You mention a 'balance of evidence'. Where can I go to read about this 'historical' Jesus??
Because my research has produced absolutely zero evidence that such a man ever existed.
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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Monsieur
cofty
so you offered your opinion on christ on a basis of 'balance of evidence'.
therefore NOT on the one interpreted in the Bible.
this is why you rightfully correct yourself by alluding to a 'portrayal' of christ as you understand it.
thus admiting that the christ of the bible was not real, and so logically neither dangerous nor a leader of a cult.
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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Monsieur
Jesus was a dangerous cult leader. Take your rose-coloured glasses off.
Cofty, you are admiting that Jesus was real?
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94
If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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Monsieur
Now we have to answer.....
As I believe God to be
1) Is there more than one god? How do you choose the most senior god?
There is but one ‘God’, he is everything and anything- when you ‘see’ a multitude of gods, you are ‘seeing’ the same god in its many forms.
2) If you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?
Real life experience will rule out this doubt.
3) Does a god deserve to be Worshipped JUST because he exists and demands it?
the ‘God’ or law of gravity certainly ‘demands’ that we ‘worship’ or at least acknowledge its irrefutable power.
4) Do I use morals to decide which god will I align myself to?
Morals have nothing to do with ‘worshipping’ the God I know. So the answer is no.
5) Is it ok for god to be immoral and commit what WE would consider evil acts just because he is god?
‘God’ is not those things you describe. So this question cannot be answered. Man IS those things though, and he should never commit them.
6) What if the religious texts are immoral? Do we reject them if the charachters claim to be doing as the god asked of them, as without these texts there is no other source for this paticular chosen god ?
The key word here is ‘claim’. Man has been claiming and passing the buck in an effort to dodge accountability where it should be demanded of.
7) If we decide that there is a god as of the bible/quaran would it be reasonable to expect that some believers would choose to not worship him or even outright dispute supporting such a god for his acts in the bible/quaran , such as Genocide, Infanticide, Sexism, Racism, Murder, Kindap, Rape, Slavery, Sexual Slavery?
The key word again is ‘If’, if there is a literal god as the the bible /quoran …I myself dispute the existence of such a god. Again, the ONLY proof of any of these atrocities being committed, is associated with MAN.
8) Do you not question such immoral acts?
Yes, why do we allow others to continue doing this? are we not more numerous than those that commit such acts?
9) Is it reasonable for that god to kill all people that worship other gods through sincere misguidance or kill atheists with sincere non belief?
No ‘God’ will ever kill, man kills, ignorance kills.
10) Why would he need to kill these men women and children? Why not present himself as the real god to them, explain why he asks for worship and also why it is deserved and let them decide? If they decide not to, he can be a merciful god who respects the free will of his creation. For he also worships nobody and should understand, for he made us in his image.
You are confused about who or what ‘God’ is. You are describing ‘God’ as if it was a person, like you and me, asking questions and such. This is a very old myth and you still appear to believe in it.
11) Is the god of the bible a dictator who demands worship? Is that enough of a reason to worship him, fear?
No, ‘he’ is not a dictator. The Bible states that God is Love, not a dictator, why would I fear love?
12) If there is a reason a god would deserve exclusive devotion and worship...what is it ?
How about the wellness and survival of mankind? If man continues in his hateful and selfish ways, it won’t stand a chance against himself.
13) Humans created life in a labaratory 2 years ago, can we demand worship from objects and life we create?
If you have the power to actually create a ‘consequence’, then there is no need to demand. Life will follow suit. Look at the ‘God’ or law of Gravity for example.
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Monsieur
Redefining the word god to mean some vague philosophical concept or equating god with maths or science or love or whatever is nothing more than theism giving up the argument.
Cofty,
Why is it impossible to redefine the word ‘god’? Who wrote THAT rule in stone? Does it say, “When debating the existence of God, you MUST use THIS ONE definition of God, otherwise your arguments are null and void”.
Of course not, this is absurd by the very nature of the subject, God, an entity whom you described as ‘imaginary’. I understood what you meant by ‘imaginary’ , as in the mythical bearded old man sitting upon a throne dispensing punishment and pain, not existing. I agree that this is an absurd cartoon created many years ago to instill fear and suppression.
Thankfully, man has acquired knowledge and comprehension of seemingly ‘impossible’ things in nature and science, like knowing how to put himself in outer space for instance. Thus the ‘myth’ of God, a man (yet conveniently a spirit, unseen or intangible) becomes more and more an impossibility.
But what if ‘God’ is a symbol? Something designed to help represent what is VERY real, like love and math and science. As the saying goes, a picture paints a thousand words, Cofty. The ‘picture’ of God is designed to do the same. But out of a thousand ‘words’, you are peculiarly focused on one.
No I'm saying that resorting to esoteric philosophy to salvage a failed notion of a god is pointless
Your statement here would indicate that you understand that God is a ‘notion’, an interpretation, an opinion even. You cannot argue against an interpretation or an opinion, but you can argue on behalf of fact. The Bible factually states (it’s in there) that God is perfect, intelligent, discernible, irrefutable. What is it describing really? I say it again, it is describing what can be proven irrefutably to be all these things, and that is mathematics and science.
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Monsieur
cofty you insist that i speak of 'esoteric philosophy' when describing God,
this leads me to believe that the subject of God is incomprehensible to you, that it's a formula too complex and like anything thats too difficult to wrap the head around you tend to discard it and deem it useless.
im simply calling God what god is, perfect and logical. and what could be more perfect and logical than provable mathematics and science. there is absolutely nothing esoteric or philosophical about these two subjects IF you understand them.
Discard whatever myth you were taught about God, the angry old man in 'heaven', and what Im expressing to you starts making a lot of sense. This shouldnt be too hard since as you rightly stated, THAT notion of god has failed.