Posts by Saintbertholdt

13

Does anybody know if the WTS, invests in the 2 companys of Lockheed Martin & Grumman Northrop, which are 2 of the biggest weapons suppliers?

by Dunedain in

i read in another thread, where it said that the wts, has investments from stocks, with the companys of lockheed martin and grumman northrop.

these are some of the biggest weapons suppliers to the us,uk, and israel.

i would think it would be very hypocritical for a christian organisation, that claims to be nuetral, and to "learn war no more", to invest money in companys that produce weapons, that are used in wars.. is this true, though?

Saintbertholdt

Hi Sammy,

What I can say is that the Riley trust shifts their investment portfolio and the stock selection changes over time.

The Riley trust is also the source of the Phillip Morris accusation.

The fact is the Riley Trust is just investing prudently.

Knowing the origin of dirty money is different of an anonymous deposit

That's if you bother to check. If I started a charity I would definitely not check where the money comes from to maintain plausible deniability. And that I believe is the Watchtowers defense.

The fact is when you open yourself to public contributions sooner or later someone who is possibly a bad person will contribute to a church or charity to assuage their conscience. I'm not saying Henrietta Riley was a bad person at all mind you. Just that she left her money in the hands of a executor who used a fund manager who tries to maximize the Trusts profit. And the Trust is actually not doing badly at all. The reason being Tobacco, Guns and airplanes are part of a balanced portfolio.

13

Does anybody know if the WTS, invests in the 2 companys of Lockheed Martin & Grumman Northrop, which are 2 of the biggest weapons suppliers?

by Dunedain in

i read in another thread, where it said that the wts, has investments from stocks, with the companys of lockheed martin and grumman northrop.

these are some of the biggest weapons suppliers to the us,uk, and israel.

i would think it would be very hypocritical for a christian organisation, that claims to be nuetral, and to "learn war no more", to invest money in companys that produce weapons, that are used in wars.. is this true, though?

Saintbertholdt

Hi Diogenesister,

a) Yes that is the most lightly case. However a Trust can also operate while the person who initiated the Trust is alive and well.

b) I have come across a number of Trusts that have donated to the Watchtower organization. There was one Trust that was seeding a plethora of religious organizations including the Watchtower corp. Now unless the Watchtower checked the financials of every Trust from which they accepted benefits, they would not be aware what the Trust was investing in.

I guess the Watchtowers argument in accepting funds unquestioningly would be that a serial ax murderer could walk into a Kingdom Hall and drop money in the contribution box.

"...in theory then would we know if the Watchtower has declined to be a beneficiary?"... I never specifically checked it out. I have always assumed they took the money.

13

Does anybody know if the WTS, invests in the 2 companys of Lockheed Martin & Grumman Northrop, which are 2 of the biggest weapons suppliers?

by Dunedain in

i read in another thread, where it said that the wts, has investments from stocks, with the companys of lockheed martin and grumman northrop.

these are some of the biggest weapons suppliers to the us,uk, and israel.

i would think it would be very hypocritical for a christian organisation, that claims to be nuetral, and to "learn war no more", to invest money in companys that produce weapons, that are used in wars.. is this true, though?

Saintbertholdt

Just to be clear:

The Riley Trust is an independent trust which has nothing to do with the Watchtower.

A Trust can be set up to make you, a company, an organization or anyone else a beneficiary. You have no control over what the Trust does financially. The only thing that you or any beneficiary can do is to decline any benefit from the Trust.

The Riley Trust is and has always been a storm in a teacup.

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

Saintbertholdt

Oubliette5 hours ago
Saintbertholdt: What help do young atheists need? I'm not being snarky.
Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they know how to think.

I do not understand what you mean.

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

Saintbertholdt

Oubliette,

...teaching them how to think critically and logically in a number of different subjects and disciplines...atheists.

What help do young atheists need? I'm not being snarky.

225

Cult or Religion

by Richard C B in

what is a cult and what is a religion?

its open to debate.

who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

Saintbertholdt

5

Trinity

by Stephanie Twist in

do jw believe in the trinity?

if yes, why and if no, why

Saintbertholdt

Do JW believe in the Trinity? If yes, why and if no, why

No they do not. The reason goes back to the Bible Student founder Charles Taze Russell and his core tenet of the ransom sacrifice: A perfect human Jesus in exchange for a perfect Adam.

This allows for humans to be resurrected from the dead to a paradise earth because the scales of universal justice have supposedly been balanced.

However Russell still left a problem unresolved: If Jesus was just a human how could his redemptive power be used to raise some humans from the dead to heaven? A human ransom alone would not cover it.

The only solution would be if Jesus was both human and God at the same time.

However this is all just fantasy. Its like debating who would win in a fight: Spiderman or Silver Surfer

11

Are logos evil?

by goddidit in

i have a vague memory of jws having some objection to logos of some kind in the past, which might be a contradiction to the recent addition of the jw.org logo.. please can someone enlighten me on what their stance used to be regarding logos?.

Saintbertholdt

Awake 1981 November 22 p. 30 Watching the WorldPope John Paul II’s visit to Ireland in 1979 was “said to have cost almost $8 million,” reports the Financial Post of Toronto, Canada, and “the Church had to come up with almost $6 million . . . while fly-by-night entrepreneurs cashed in by selling trinkets and souvenirs.” According to the Post, to see that the Church gets a share of the booty this time, a new company called Papal Visits, Ltd., has been formed by the bishops of Scotland, England and Wales. The company reportedly has appointed a commercial organization to manage the sale of commemorative programs, T-shirts, books and a multitude of other souvenirs—all carrying an official logo, of course.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

Saintbertholdt

I cannot say for certain what the record is but the thread below thread is pretty typical and it went 45. The current thread also seems pretty typical and will probably range similarly

Its important to try and hit 50 at least. Sort of like a standardized reference measure.

1890s showing an invention of a dress with two sturdy handles near the waist to prevent that.

The only way to be sure:

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

Saintbertholdt

Whats the record?