Honestly, I'm always hesitant to recommend a kid compare himself to Jesus while all the kids around him are getting baptized no older than 18 (it's likely to cause the JW to think, "Who do you think you are? You're some special case not like the rest of us?"). I like Terry's suggestion the best.
Apognophos
JoinedPosts by Apognophos
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Can anyone tell me any narrative of having successfully avoided Baptism while being raised JW?
by SonoftheTrinity ini just worry for my stepkids about their future that way..
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CREATIVE "DAYS" - What do JWs believe?
by Bloody Hotdogs! ina few weeks ago, i asked you to critique my website article on dinosaurs (http://www.jwbeliefs.com/what-do-jehovahs-witnesses-believe-about-dinosaurs/).
it was pointed out that much of what i wrote depends on the creative "days" being relatively short - something i believe jws teach.. after being prompted to review my conclusions/research, i was more convinced than ever that jws promote relatively short creative days.
the nail in the coffin was the teaching that day seven is indicative of the length of the other six days (i.e.
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Apognophos
Hotdogs: Yes, that sounds pretty correct. As close as we will come to agreeing, anyway :-) You can certainly acknowledge the ambiguity and say on your site that the teaching *was* 7,000 years per day at one time, and that they have maintained the "thousands" remark for a while now rather than confirm or deny the 7,000-years-per-day teaching.
When it comes to the final day, however, I am pretty sure that the Society still thinks day 7 is precisely 7,000 years and that the delay in creating Eve (and thus ending day 6) is simply much more than Franz thought. After all, why would the day be something like 7,040 years or 7,235? The Society wants to believe it's precisely 7,000 because it's a nice round, Biblical number and because it means the end is coming any time now.
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Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.
by Qcmbr inever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.
to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.
you can only paint sh*t so many ways.
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Apognophos
OEJ, interesting anecdote. I too remember when those attendance numbers would have been unacceptable. I'll have to listen for our numbers next time the CO comes here.
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The Superior Qualities of Ancient Roman Concrete
by fulltimestudent inthese concrete walls in trajan's markets in rome are nearly 2000 years old and survived a major earthquake in 1349 ce.. .
caption: the concrete walls of trajan's markets in rome have stood the test of time and the elements for nearly 2,000 years.
they have even survived a major earthquake in 1349.. credit: photo courtesy of marie jackson, berkeley.
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Apognophos
The Pantheon is another long-standing tribute to Roman ingenuity and Roman concrete. Its dome is still the largest unreinforced concrete dome in history.
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When you Create your own Bible, it is Much easier to convince of your Lies.
by objectivetruth inthe word in question is the hebrew word mishneh meaning "a double, copy, second" (http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/4932.htm) this word is a very specific word, which implies a double portion, or twice as much.. it is numerical and precise.. the new world translation translates this word as double in the below 2 scriptures :.
isaiah 61:7 "instead of shame you will have a double portion, and instead of humiliation they will shout joyfully over their share.yes, they will possess a double (mishneh) portion in their land.
everlasting rejoicing will be theirs.
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Apognophos
Perhaps it's the lack of sleep, but I'm not sure I get your point, objectivetruth. You're objecting to the translation of Jer. 16:18, aren't you? But then you quote the Society's take on Isaiah's double portion. This is based on a correctly-translated scripture in Isa. 61:7, is it not? I'm not clear on the reason you're giving for the Society translating "mishneh" as "full" in Jeremiah, since you go on to talk about the Society's belief about the "double portion".
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Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)
by slimboyfat inafter some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.
thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.
i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.
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Apognophos
The best thing we can do for sbf is stop talking about whether he's still here or not. This thread should be closed, in my not-so-humble opinion.
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Should I attend Kingdom Hall meetings to discreetly "preach"?
by CrytoJesus inchristians, should i attend kingdom hall meetings to discreetly "preach" to jws about the real jesus and the lies of the watchtower?.
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i plan to go undercover and plant seeds into them.. .
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Apognophos
As never a jw stated, people on here tend to exaggerate the negatives about the Witnesses. If the religion had worked well for them, they'd still be in it. So you're looking at a lot of damaged, angry people here. That being said, you'll encounter more of the so-called "programming" as you eventually get into more in-depth discussions with JWs. Look for that moment when they stop being interested in discussing facts and fall back to "knowing it's the truth".
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How can I ever leave this cult?
by Julia Orwell ini've been out nearly two years but it's not out of me.
i am on school holidays now til february so i thought without work to worry about i can come off my medication.
i phased it slowly, starting in early november to avoid the physical side effects of coming down.
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Apognophos
It sounds to me like your problems do not directly have to do with the religion. I say this simply because most ex-JWs do not have this much trouble moving on. If you were never a Witness, you would not be fixated on your Witness past but on a past marriage, etc. That being said, I'm not sure it's healthy for you to keep living in the same place. Perhaps you need to move to where you don't know any JWs? I think you need to break out of the box of your old memories and start forming new ones, which may require drastic life changes.
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CREATIVE "DAYS" - What do JWs believe?
by Bloody Hotdogs! ina few weeks ago, i asked you to critique my website article on dinosaurs (http://www.jwbeliefs.com/what-do-jehovahs-witnesses-believe-about-dinosaurs/).
it was pointed out that much of what i wrote depends on the creative "days" being relatively short - something i believe jws teach.. after being prompted to review my conclusions/research, i was more convinced than ever that jws promote relatively short creative days.
the nail in the coffin was the teaching that day seven is indicative of the length of the other six days (i.e.
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Apognophos
I basically agree with your findings, Hotdogs, except:
FACT: JWs have always taught that "day" seven can be used to infer the length of the other days. This has been explicitly stated as recent as 1998 (see Creator Book, quoted above). Nothing has been published that contradicts or revises this teaching.
Although the Creator book is obviously more recent than Insight, leaving_quietly's Insight quote shows that the Society has considered the possibility that the other days were not 7,000 years. Notice the phrase at the end "at least thousands of years in length", which is allowing for a range of possible lengths for those days.
That being said, I think that it's probably an unpleasant thought for the higher-ups to contemplate the other six days being different lengths because it intrudes on the circular reasoning behind day 7 being 7,000 years. If the other days were longer then it brings into question why this one has to be 7,000 years and not longer. So most WT quotes do seem to be hinting that they want all days to be even in length, but they're still avoiding any definite statements about that.
For that reason I still urge caution in making an assertion about something which does not have direct quotes from the Society to back it up. I know it's tempting to say that they believe this since it places them into a clear conflict with science, but even in the Creator book they are only saying "the other days must be thousands of years long", without using any wording like "of equal length to day 7". We may think we know what they are getting at, but it's not spelled out, so it's easily deniable on their part.
FACT: If the "end" comes as soon as JWs say it will, "day" seven will end up being about 7000 years long.
FACT: All six creative days are described as encompasing "thousands" of years each. The only reason for this slightly vague choice of words is that JWs cannot pinpoint the date of the beginning of “day” seven (something they once tried to do: 1975 fiasco) and therefore cannot know exactly how long it will end up being.
No, day 7 is still exactly 7,000 years, in their opinion. It's just a question of when the day starts. Clearly Franz' date of 4026 B.C. was wrong; even if it were the date of Adam's creation, it seems that Eve's creation was more than 39 years later or else the 6,000 years would have been up by now and Armageddon would have come. This simply means that Eve's creation, the final act of day 6, happened after the fall of 3987 B.C. (if my math is right). It doesn't change the length of day 7 in the minds of the WT leadership.
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Governing Bodies Secret Elder's training video on suicide leaked
by Watchtower-Free inwatchtower minions have pulled down jwsurveys links .
here's another one .. the gb should be held liable for this crap.
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/cvas6fcrc9zca94/shepherding_instructional_suicidal_widow.avi.
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Apognophos
Am I the only one who always reads this thread title as "A training video for elders on how to commit suicide"? I can't be the only one.