Posts by TonusOH

173

Is the tide turning against covid vaccines?

by slimboyfat in

have you seen this video about the covid vaccines?

have you got any views on the information?

i find it worrying at least.

TonusOH

It wasn’t about saving time so how can that be called a “shortcut”?

They took the easy path instead of doing more research or scrapping the rollout and finding another medication. The latter would have cost them time and money. So it was about saving time.

In order to determine whether it is in their financial interests to promote dangerous drugs you can’t just deduct the fines in this one instance.

If the overall cost was higher than the revenue, it would not be in their interests to make a decision that would also lead to damage to their reputation and more regulation for their industry. This seems sensible to me.

By definition, we cannot know how many times they got away with it. We must judge them on the times when they were caught and assess the risks and ultimate costs. We know that companies make bad decisions because we do occasionally catch them, and that is why there is more regulation and more scrutiny. This is to be expected.

As for recognizing that health officials have gotten it wrong, we know that in the same way-- discoveries and research show us where they got it wrong and we can determine how trustworthy they are or aren't. And we can shine that same light on any claim about the efficacy -or lack thereof- of vaccines. Again, I don't see this as an either-or situation. Recognizing that one person is promoting biased or incomplete information to make things look one way doesn't mean I have to accept that the alternative must be that the opposite is true.

173

Is the tide turning against covid vaccines?

by slimboyfat in

have you seen this video about the covid vaccines?

have you got any views on the information?

i find it worrying at least.

TonusOH

I agree that criminal charges are called for in such situations, and I am not excusing their actions. The term shortcut may seem insufficient or inapplicable to you, but that is what they did. They made a decision designed to save time and money, regardless of cost- that is a shortcut. It cost lives, it tarnished their reputation, it cost them vast amounts of money and was one of the reasons they had to reduce their workforce by more than 10% in 2005.

A logical approach to the issue would tell me that it was not worth it, even allowing for the fact that the people who made the decisions that killed thousands of people did not pay an appropriate personal cost.

173

Is the tide turning against covid vaccines?

by slimboyfat in

have you seen this video about the covid vaccines?

have you got any views on the information?

i find it worrying at least.

TonusOH

A shortcut, in this context, is a deliberate decision taken in the interests of making money. Which didn't work as Merck had hoped, a reminder that taking shortcuts can cost money instead.

8

A Great Life After Leaving

by Lost in the fog in

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/shunned-jehovahs-witnesses-life-now-7613921.

TonusOH

Good for you and yours, Smiddy!

I think that's one thing I recognized after a while. For all of the planning we do and for all of our expectations, we only ever live in the present. That actually makes it important to plan, of course. But I try to spend as little time as possible thinking about the time I wasted, since it's gone and done. I am happy with my life today and working to make it better, and I can do that. So while I can't get back the 40-ish years I spent in, I can live it up in the remaining 40. Or so I hope.

38

Have JW `s ever faced the topic of Jesus having inherited Adamic sin ?

by smiddy3 in

according to the bible all humans male and female have inherited sin because of adam and eve`s disobedience to god .. god may have impregnated mary with a life force , however it was still sinful mary who gave birth to jesus after nine months in her body who is /was supposedly without sin ?.

mary must have passed on some of her sinful state to jesus having been in her womb for the past nine months , surely.

and there is nothing in the bible / scripture to say otherwise ?.

TonusOH

As Fisherman pointed out, only icky women can pass along imperfection. Men, made in God's image, are still kinda cool and awesome and they just overcome woman's limitations with their genetic magnificence.

173

Is the tide turning against covid vaccines?

by slimboyfat in

have you seen this video about the covid vaccines?

have you got any views on the information?

i find it worrying at least.

TonusOH

slimboyfat: Have you read about the Vioxx case?

I think Vioxx is covered by my previous statement: "I'm aware that companies do sometimes take shortcuts that cost lives, and that might even be part of the calculus in some cases." Merck may have come out ahead overall with Vioxx financially, though they did pay out $5 billion in settlements, which doesn't count any fines and lawyer costs. Their example doesn't seem like the sort that would incentivize other companies to take similar shortcuts.

The system is explicitly constituted to prioritise profit over human life and well being.

Kind of, yeah. But I don't agree that it's explicit. You do have to develop a market and find people to sell to and get them to keep coming back, and they can't spend money when they're dead.

I don't see this as an either-or scenario. If I don't trust conspiracy theorists, I'm not obligated to trust politicians and corporations. Hence why I said I'm a pragmatist. The logical and practical explanations may not always be the right ones, because people are capable of being almost comically blind to the consequences of their plans. But they work more often than not, in my experience.

8

Illinois Elders as mandatory reporters must undergo training

by Diogenesister in

illinois now requires all elders as mandatory reporters to undergo state approved training every three years to ensure they fully understand their roles as mandated reporters.

this will include a pre training assessment, 60 - 90 mins of self paced, interactive training with a final assessment to ensure reporters understand their responsibilities.

following the course, mandated reporters must make a declaration that they understand their status as a reporter and will fully comply with mandatory requirements.

TonusOH

The WTS prides itself on the many laws and rights that its legal cases were responsible for in the past. I wonder how they feel about a local government having to create a type of RICO statute for religious entities, thanks to their miserable handling of CSA cases.

173

Is the tide turning against covid vaccines?

by slimboyfat in

have you seen this video about the covid vaccines?

have you got any views on the information?

i find it worrying at least.

TonusOH

slimboyfat: Drug companies want to make money even if that costs lives.

I'm thinking that they make much more money if they save lives. Or, at least, if they do not kill people instead of helping. I'm aware that companies do sometimes take shortcuts that cost lives, and that might even be part of the calculus in some cases. Laws that require certain levels of transparency have led to drug companies being forced to offer disclaimers in their ads, explaining all of the possible outcomes of use, including death.

And I'm sure it's possible that the vaccines have unknown or unexpected dangers that the quick rollout would exacerbate. I also know that there is no shortage of self-styled internet whistleblowers who will raise false alarms constantly over every possible issue they can find. There are a lot of young boys shouting "WOLF" every minute of every day. They've become background noise. Lots of shouting, very few wolves.

I'm a skeptic, but I'm also a pragmatist.

8

A Great Life After Leaving

by Lost in the fog in

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/shunned-jehovahs-witnesses-life-now-7613921.

TonusOH

Under the right circumstances, getting free from the oppressive environment they create is amazing. I faded slowly and had a support system outside of it by the time I stopped going to meetings regularly. Since I have not been DF, the one or two JWs who I have friendships with are able to communicate with me without guilt. Most of my family are out, and the few who remain have cordial relationships with me, and that's fine.

So I was able to walk away and enjoy the freedom that comes from getting out, without having any of the stress and anxiety and difficult times that can come when you don't have a support system around you. And they will use your misery against you, making it seem as if leaving is the cause, instead of the way they treat you when you want to leave. And the worst part is that it is often the people you care about most who are leading the persecution against you. The emotional damage can be very bad.

But not having to rush home from work so that I can shower and change and get right back out the door to go to a meeting and then get home and scarf down a meal and go to bed... it's just amazing. To this day, I feel a bit of urgency when I am going home from work, even though there is no meeting to go to. And it has been around 15-20 years since I was going to meetings with any regularity. So it did leave some lasting marks on me.

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

TonusOH

I believe that in science, the working definition is "descent with modification." In other words, as organisms reproduce, the new organisms are not exactly the same as the 'parent' organisms. Each successive generation is changed in very small ways, and the accumulation of those changes leads to gradual change in the population of those organisms. Enough time and enough changes, and you have a different species of organism. Or a different genus. And so on.

The definition covers what some refer to as 'micro-evolution,' which describes minor changes within a species or sufficient changes to produce a new species which is still close enough to the original, though by definition they cannot interbreed. It also covers macro-evolution, though a significant amount of work needs to be done to demonstrate it, which is where the gulf between science and religion exists on the issue.

I think Aron Ra's YouTube channel does a good job of explaining evolutionary concepts and responding to many of the attempts to discredit the theory. For me, the question is moot from an existential point of view, but I do like science and find the work done so far to be fascinating, if a bit science-fictiony to someone lacking in the higher levels of biological education. The scientific method isn't perfect, but over the long haul I think it does the best job of finding answers. If evolution doesn't work as explained, we'll learn in time.