The angels had to be clothed, because we know they were pretty horny for Earth women. Imagine if they were all walking around in Heaven, buck-nekkid with their perfect bodies and working plumbing. It would be a holy sausage-fest up there in the Pleiades!
TonusOH
JoinedPosts by TonusOH
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24
Naked in the New World
by neat blue dog ini know there was a painting of a woman being resurrected naked and someone coming to greet her holding clothes, but what about after perfection, after the thousand years?.
the idea is we're supposed to achieve what adam lost by returning to human perfection, so wouldn't that include not wearing clothes, especially as the act of adam and eve hiding in the trees and sewing fig leaves signified shame, and imperfection passed on through the reproductive organs.
has the wt ever addressed this?
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Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford
by LoveUniHateExams ini was thinking a bit about this the other day.
ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.
some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....
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TonusOH
There was a site that I read a year or two ago that had some pretty extensive info on Russell, specifically his business dealings and his relationship with his wife, which apparently ended in a bitter divorce. I thought it was the ad1914.com site (and it might be) but I can't find the articles about him.
He does strike me as a con man, who put up a respectable front but found every which way to make money, including by selling snake oil to Bible students. He does seem to have been a sincere person early in his life and ministry, but his ego got built up and at some point he got to like it too much, IMO. His religious ideas were occasionally pretty well out there (the stuff about the Pyramids of Giza stands out).
Rutherford, I think, wanted to leave his mark on the organization. At first, he seems to have followed Russell's lead, marking dates with supreme confidence and promoting world-changing events, but that caught up to him and I think he learned a lesson. After that, he decided to rebuild the organization from the ground up and made sweeping changes to doctrine and interpretation, essentially wiping a lot of Russell's work away.
I think that they both had the gift of communication, be it in their writings or their public speeches. They also understood the importance of keeping firm control of the organization and presenting a clear and united front to the public. This is what helped keep the organization together during tough times and grow it quickly during good times. Knorr seemed to learn fairly quickly that the age of big pronouncements was ending and the organization really just needed a steady hand. If there's one thing he could have changed, I bet he would have told Franz to drop any talk of 6,000 years since man's creation and anything to do with 1975.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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TonusOH
Vintage: So, if not lonely, what?
Maybe he's just an asshole.
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Beware of "organization." - They said it!
by punkofnice inwatchtower, september 15, 1895: "beware of "organization.
" it is wholly unnecessary.
the bible rules will be the only rules you will need.
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TonusOH
The issue is that 'progressive understanding' is impossible to distinguish from 'making it up as we go along.'
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A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.
by Fisherman inobviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.
and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.
in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.
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TonusOH
Sea Breeze: I just couldn't believe how stupid the WT imagined us to be.
They have lowered their standards, once they started with the overlapping generations explanation. Abandoning the "1914 generation" bit was at least a practical move in 1995, even if done in such a cynical manner. Revisiting it in order to build up a new sense of urgency was a bad idea. I wonder how many people were snapped out of their JW fog by that explanation.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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TonusOH
He cannot rewrite it... but he will certainly give it his best effort!
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27
New and improved?
by tenyearsafter ini have a family member who had been df'ed for 15 years or so...recently they reinstated as a jw.
when i asked what motivated them to make that decision, the response was to be able to see family and old friends.
they insisted that things were different now.
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TonusOH
truth_b_known: Answering at meetings is to be limited to re-reading directly from the source material
Now that is a change. I can remember that we had an elder who always handled the weekly Watchtower article review. He would constantly encourage us to give answers in our own words and not just read from the paragraphs. He was a pretty well-connected person in Bethel, so we always got the impression that his attitude reflected the attitude of the GB in regards to that. And maybe it did, back then.
Even after so long not attending meetings, it feels weird to learn that they are doing that- asking the members to stop thinking and just read the words on the page. I guess what surprises me is how brazen it is. They either don't care if people realize how hard-line they have become, or they really do think that they're God's right-hand and the people will follow them right over a cliff.
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New and improved?
by tenyearsafter ini have a family member who had been df'ed for 15 years or so...recently they reinstated as a jw.
when i asked what motivated them to make that decision, the response was to be able to see family and old friends.
they insisted that things were different now.
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TonusOH
Over the years I have gotten the impression that they've eased off a bit. I think they are trying to find a workable middle-ground, a way to keep people invested in the "final days" narrative without being so harsh that they leave, especially as more time passes and the "last day" continues to not arrive.
I'm curious how the current GB will handle things. Will they try to keep a hard line on the "last day" stuff, figuring that their own lives are almost at an end anyway? Or will they begin to look for ways to keep the religion viable while easing off on the "any second now" approach that will eventually drain away the membership? I feel like they're at a crossroads, because it's not as easy to hide the ugly stuff anymore.
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Brother Ted, Theocratic Economics and Card Run-outs
by Duncan indear all,.
i nearly met up with brother ted f. the other day.
i say nearly, because i arrived round my mothers house just a few minutes after he left.
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TonusOH
Hi Duncan!
The last meaningful conversation with him must have been 25 years ago.
Man, I read that and just realized, that means it is now 45 years since that conversation. Time just slips through our fingers, faster and faster as we get older. I hope the intervening 20 years since the original post have been kind ones.
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making out like a bandit
by enoughisenough inhere is a practice i only recently learned about and am actually interested in learning more details...some of you may have experience on the subject.
i always thought it marvelous, loving, and kind how the brothers would go in ( at their own expense) after disasters and repair homes of the witnesses who had been adversely effected.
i personally have worked freely helping to clean and repair after flooding.
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TonusOH
enoughisenough: I am curious to know just how that is handled...
I don't know for certain 100%, but my understand is that -at least in the USA- the insurer has to approve of the contractor so that they don't end up paying for substandard work. The WTS may contact the insurer and convince them that they can handle the work, but I have no idea how that process goes. But if they're cashing the checks, I'm pretty sure that is what happens.
Well, I guess another way they can do it is for the homeowner to get an estimate and have the insurer cut a check, which they then turn over to the WTS. But I would assume that the insurer would be the one providing the estimate and would also need to inspect the home afterwards to make sure their money was spent properly (they are, after all, still insuring the home against future damage). But I guess it's possible that the homeowner can ask to use their own contractor and the insurer allows it, as long as the repair is up to their standards when they inspect it.
But yes, the end result is that the WTS sends volunteers to provide free time and labor, and the organization gets the money. I'm not sure who pays for the materials, but I assume the WTS does. They still come out well ahead, since labor is a large part of the cost and can be variable, while material costs tend to be more stable and predictable.