Interesting. Lots of name-calling against Redford. A non-sequitor about how the ANWR is not that big or such a great vacation spot. But not one comment about Redord's arguments. No rebuttals, no tearing his thoughts down and showing the flaws. Name-calling. Taking sides.
Posts by Seeker
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33Message from Robert Redford on energy security
by DCs Ghost indear friend,.
it is understandable that we americans feel an almost reflexive need for unanimity in trying times like these.
as a nation, we are rightly consumed with responding to the terrorist attacks on september 11th.
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5
Death of Free Speech
by chappy ina little off topic for the board, but i thought it was applicable to the times.. .
the death of free speech.
by doug patton.
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Seeker
One further thought, and a proof that this has nothing to do with free speech:
The GOP is squealing about their loss of extra money for their campaigns, and pretending this is about free speech. After all, they say, some innocent ol' average folks won't be able to put their money where they want in defense of politicians they approve of. Oh horrors!
The proof that this is a lie, and that the GOP doesn't care about free speech, is how they have successfully pushed through term-limit laws in recent years. Doesn't that reduce our rights, preventing us from voting for a politician just because he has served before? Sure, but you won't hear those 'Oh save our precious rights' GOPers say a word about term limits. Why, Grandpa? That's right, grandson, because they are lying hypocrites.
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5
Death of Free Speech
by chappy ina little off topic for the board, but i thought it was applicable to the times.. .
the death of free speech.
by doug patton.
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Seeker
An excellent example of how the right wing has taken a straightforward issue of limiting the amount of money that can be poured into their coffers and pretending it's a free speech (!) issue instead. Orwell may be dead, but his techniques are in full bloom. I was astounded the first time I heard a right wing source pretend this was a free speech issue. That takes guts to tell such a big lie, but to my further amazement people seem to be buying this nonsese without questioning it!
Politicians are just upset that they have to keep their grubby little hands off further piles of cash while limiting themselves to the tens of millions of dollars they can still collect from the PR firms and corporations that want to buy off their lawmakers.
Still, for furthering propagandistic spin of a monumental lie, there aren't too many better ways than in a parable of a grandfather and a grandson having a chat. The fact that the right wing is working overtime to gut the Constitutional rights that Americans don't even realizing are being taken from them, and by right wing I mean in this case the entire U.S. congress of both Democrats and Republicans, is hidden by this parable that pretends they actually care about the Constitution.
They should be ashamed of themselves for this propaganda. We should be ashamed of ourselves for not questioning these lies.
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16
what's this bull****?
by cellomould infrom nytimes on the web: .
bush proposing to shift burden of toxic cleanups to taxpayers.
by katharine q. seelye.
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Seeker
"Liberal elite"? That's propaganda talk.
Liberals and Conservatives in the U.S. are both conservative, just varying in degree. No true liberal voice gets heard in mainstream America. However, certain far right types push propaganda stating otherwise.
However, all politicans on the national level are irrelevant other than the damage they are doing to Americans. Corporate interests with deep-pocketed public relations firms are in charge now, and all this Liberal vs. Conservative arguing just suits their purposes nicely. Go ahead, keep on fighting. Won't do a bit of good other than to distract you.
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33
Message from Robert Redford on energy security
by DCs Ghost indear friend,.
it is understandable that we americans feel an almost reflexive need for unanimity in trying times like these.
as a nation, we are rightly consumed with responding to the terrorist attacks on september 11th.
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Seeker
When Bush was elected, and make no mistake about it, he was elected
Only because the Supreme Court ran out the clock. When the final tally was made for Florida, Bush lost.
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21
Freemasonic Fascism/ Menace
by sf in"masonic menace" and "freemasonic fascism":.
< http://www3.sympatico.ca/mtronics/anticult/masonicmenace/.
if man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-skallywagger
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Seeker
Guest77, not one comment about all that I said? That doesn't give me much confidence that you heard what I was saying.
1.
Indeed it does if you think this has Masonic significance. This is an urban legend that there is a connection. The insignia elements predate any Masonic usage by a long time. The elements were suggested by a non-Mason on the design committee. There wasn't a suggestion that this design element had anything to do with Masons until the late 1870s.
Seeker, the insignia of the pyramid on the American one dollar says it all.So if that's all it takes to convince you, if it "says it all," may I suggest you do some more research?
2.
OK, I looked him up, found a transcript of one of his speeches, read it, and now I know another example of the precise thing I was complaining about in my previous message to you. Which you ignored.
Here is one of the many names I will cite for your personal research, Myron Fagan.3.
I don't know anyone who is a Freemason, as far as I am aware. So what?
As I have said, I have acquaintances who are Freemasons.What have you to offer besides skepticism?
The Carl Sagan Baloney Detection Kit. Read The Demon-Haunted World which, as far as I recall, does not talk about Masons at all, but does talk about how to detect baloney in an argument. If you learn the technique, you will understand why I am not impressed by conjecture. -
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Freemasonic Fascism/ Menace
by sf in"masonic menace" and "freemasonic fascism":.
< http://www3.sympatico.ca/mtronics/anticult/masonicmenace/.
if man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-skallywagger
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Seeker
Guest, you are welcome to research anything you want, without any problem. What I said about conjecture has to do with the type of material that gets posted here on this subject. When you see an article anywhere, in a magazine, a book, a web page, notice if what is asserted gets backed up with facts that can be verified. If so, it's worth researching further. If not, it's just conjecture.
To take an obvious example, if I create a web page where I claim that George W. Bush is actually a poodle that disguises his identity to appear like a human, and I backed up this claim by quoting someone who said they saw him in canine form, would that be convincing? Not really. Anyone can make up a quote. Anyone mentally ill can see all sorts of things and give a real quote that bears little relation to reality.
As we ex-JWs like to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If I want to claim the president is actually a poodle, I had better have some verifiable evidence to back that claim up. If the governing body of JWs wants to claim they are they faithful and discreet slave, they had better have some verifiable evidence to back that claim up. If someone wants to claim freemasons are secretly ruling the world, they had better have some verifiable evidence to back that claim up.
So far, I've yet to see verifiable evidence that backs the masonic claims. Thus what I am left with are web pages that make lots of claims, quote people who make the same claims, and never back it up with anything that an observer can check for themselves. That makes what they are saying merely conjecture.
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that there is a secret society that controls the world. All I ever ask for is evidence that is rational and verifiable. Until then, no matter how much of this stuff I read, I no more believe it than I believe the governing body is the faithful and discreet slave (lots of claims have been made for that conjecture, none of which stands up to scrutiny either).
Feel free to ignore all of what I said. You are a free agent and can do whatever you like. I apply this same standard to all subjects in life, and it serves me well in finding out facts and weeding out empty conjecture.
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Witnesses just came at my door!!!!!
by gilwarrior inholy crap!
i was surfing through this site when i hear a knock at my door.
no, it can't!
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Seeker
Witnesses just came at my door!!!!
Am I the only dirty-minded individual who saw the obvious sexual reference in the thread title? All I have to say is that preaching would be a lot more popular to JWs if they got to do that...
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67
Bible Error: The Visit to the Tomb
by JosephAlward inthe following two accounts of the morning visit by the women to anoint jesus body are contradictory.
according to mark, the women wondered how they would remove the stone covering the tomb, but they found that it had already been rolled away.
matthew, however, says that when the women went to the tomb, there was an earthquake, and an angel came down from heaven, went to the tomb, and rolled the stone back.
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Seeker
Matthew mentioned one angel who spoke to Mary, John mentions two. Maybe John was more inclusive than Matthew, but the essense of the accounts match
In my opinion, that makes little sense. We're talking about something amazing, something that supposedly had happened only a few times in history. We're talking about a time of heightened emotions of despair turning to joy. And Matthew forgets to mention a materialized angel?! This is astounding stuff that is supposedly happening, and to Matthew it's just so much window dressing that he only bothers mentioning the one angel needed to propel the story?
It makes a lot more sense when you realize there were no eyewitness gospel accounts, that all the stories are second-hand, and the details started to get garbled over time.
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Conspiracy's!!!!! ya gotta see this!
by VeniceIT ini don't know if you've watched the new show on tnn called 'conspiracy theory' hosted by kevin nellian (snl).. they have a panel with people on both sides of an issue.
it's really funny.
this week it's about secret societies.
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Seeker
Any and all research in this subject will knock your socks off.
Unless you are the type who wants credible evidence with your conjecture, in which case you will not only get to keep your socks on but you won't even have to untie your shoelaces.