i am interested in the following incident(s)..... ........the witch-hunt at brooklyn bethel in the early seventies when dozens of bethel boys were disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in brooklyn bethel...... if anyone can provide more detail i would be grateful!!!
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Rick,
That story told you was absurd and false. Those of us in New York City at the time never heard of roving gang of homosexuals raping young men, as if such a thing would happen! Absurd.
No, the homosexual behavior occured within Bethel's walls, between Bethelites. Nobody was forced into anything.
i am interested in the following incident(s)..... ........the witch-hunt at brooklyn bethel in the early seventies when dozens of bethel boys were disfellowshipped after learning of their midnight trysts in the sauna in brooklyn bethel...... if anyone can provide more detail i would be grateful!!!
!
I can confirm these stories. I knew a Bethelite who went to a brother's room for a party. During the part things got out of hand and sexual activity began between a number of the young men. This Bethelite was not into homosexual activity, felt very uncomfortable and surprised by what was happening. At that moment another brother walked in, took one look and started taking names. Everyone involved was kicked out of Bethel, including the Bethelite who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He felt terrible, and we all felt bad for him, but out he went.
This was in the days before locks on the doors. Anyway, this sort of thing (hidden homosexual activity) has gone on at Bethel at times.
with so many having been raised in the truuf.... do any of you now feel that due to the abuse and horros of being raised that way that you now need to work at building positive memories of things..like christmas??.
do others accuse you of going overboard with the holiday celebrations??.
do you look for opportunitys to have a party??.
I'm so used to skipping holidays, I don't miss them now. I like Christmas, but don't care much about it either way. Same thing with birthdays. I barely notice that I'm having one, and couldn't care less about that fact.
I have the freedom to do whatever I want, but every time I celebrate Christmas or birthdays it just doesn't do that much for me, so I don't much care about them.
the u.s. government is returning john walker to the states for trial.
what do you consider an appropriate punishment for his mis-deeds?.
i think, he should be[if found guilty]stipped of his citizenship and returned to somewhere in the mideast to spend the rest of his life,with no possibility to return to the u.s. for any reason.
Just one question if you are to be in Jail where would you like to be in prison in the USA or n an Arab-Muslim nation?
Oh, the USA, absolutely. But that's why what you said was propaganda, for you took the above question then implied how soft it is in US prisons. US prisons may be better, but both experiences are awful. Neither one is a country club in any sense of the word. Only white collar criminals get that treatment, and Walker ain't that.
As for living in Yemen and Afghanistan, how much money do you think it takes to live there? It's dirt-cheap! And don't forget, he went there to be trained, so his expenses were probably being covered by his trainers. You know how JWs love to brag how they will take care of their own when visiting around the world? Well, I'm sure Muslims do the same thing, and the Muslims over there were probably only too happy to care for this American who showed such genuine interest in his Islamic studies. And since his parents had no idea where he was, they clearly weren't supporting him financially. He must have made his own way or depended on the charity of his Muslim brethren.
what a bunch of wall paper.
99% of the people on this forum are hopelessly believers in one sided non-sense.
i am tired of the abusive language that has been dumped on me by otherwise respectable participants.
proplog2,
I agree that we need to make sure false accusations are not acted upon. I don't think false accusations happen that often, but I also don't believe it never happens. There are too many vindictive ex-spouses out there willing to instill a false idea into a child for it to never happen.
However, you cannot deny that there is a real problem in the WTS on this issue. Those of us who have seen the problem directly know that reforms are needed. Just making one change, having the person who brings to accusation of abuse go directly to the police and not the elders, would make a big difference. The police are in touch with experts on the subject, unlike the elders, and can help ferret out the tiny percentage of false accusations while simultaneously punishing the guilty. Some of us have seen admitted molestors get away with a light sentence from the elders while the police were deliberately kept out of the picture in order not to "put a bad light on Witnesses." Enough!
from an article about tonight's state of the union speech by bush:.
he proposed a new homeland security corps of emergency respondents to disasters and an expansion of the peace corps to more than double its size -- to 15,000 volunteers.
one goal will be to encourage development and education in the islamic world.
Julie,
Good historical allusion. Bush is running his next campaign on the war, thinking that his new-found popularity will carry the day. His dad thought the same thing...
This "war" on terrorism will turn out to be just like the "war" on drugs, something that began with high ideals and over the years will degenerate into a source of funding for law officials, an excuse to crack down on the rights of citizens, and a chance to increase the prison population will all sort of collateral, non-dangerous "criminals" who the government doesn't like. Oh yeah, it will never end, either.
Twenty years from now, as President uh Nash takes office and gives her first State of the Union speech, one of the things she will say is how important our "war on terrorism" is. Never mind the domestic problems, we have a war to fight!
from an article about tonight's state of the union speech by bush:.
he proposed a new homeland security corps of emergency respondents to disasters and an expansion of the peace corps to more than double its size -- to 15,000 volunteers.
one goal will be to encourage development and education in the islamic world.
Amazing,
Seeker: Is it possible maybe too much is being read into Bush's intent. What does it mean to make a society modern? To me, that does not mean changing their culture. Rather, it means working with them so that they can shed ignorance and bigotry against us as they expect us to shed ignorance and bigotry toward them. It means meeting basic human needs. Most importantly, developing relationships with them so that they won't breed terrorists who want to kill usHigh-minded ideals, to be sure. It would be nice if this were the intent, but the past history of American dealings with other countries doesn't give us much room for hope that this is what they mean. Some of the bigotry against America is out of ignorance and propaganda. Some of it is due to the way America has selfishly meddled in the affairs of other countries. I'm sure people in Central America heard that part of the speech last night and shuddered, for they have suffered at the hands of America as America has imposed its will on who gets to lead those countries.
There is also the question of cultural bias. Who is to say the modern way is always the best way? Yes, advances in science are good, and the like, but is the industrial revolution always an improvement over an agrarian society? Is an urban-centralized life an improvement over rural living? If the definition of "modern" is hosting Nike factories where children can be exploited with 14-hour days and few bathroom breaks, some countries may choose to opt out.
If a country comes to us and says, 'Please help us modernize,' then America should do so.
If a country says, 'We're fine the way we are, thanks,' then America should respect that too.
I've noticed a number of comments about Afghanistan in this thread. Bush wasn't talking just about Afghanistan in that part of the speech. Economic good times requires ever-increasing markets, and the only way that globalization works is if everyone comes to the party. Not every nation will want to come to the party if America gets to set all the rules.
from an article about tonight's state of the union speech by bush:.
he proposed a new homeland security corps of emergency respondents to disasters and an expansion of the peace corps to more than double its size -- to 15,000 volunteers.
one goal will be to encourage development and education in the islamic world.
From an article about tonight's State of the Union speech by Bush:
He proposed a new homeland security corps of emergency respondents to disasters and an expansion of the Peace Corps to more than double its size -- to 15,000 volunteers. One goal will be to encourage development and education in the Islamic world. Aides said the United States did not want to impose its culture on the Islamic world, simply help make them modern societies.(Boldface mine)
The sentence boldfaced is Orwellian. How is left as an exercise for the reader.
the average jw is not allowed to change bulbs.
further, the r&f are not able to find any new bulbs.
jehovah only gives light bulb finding privileges to the gb, and only every so often.
Very good! Here's my variation that occured to me when I saw the thread title but before I read your response:
It takes 19 dubs to change a light bulb:
1 to meet the bulb during a stressful time in the bulb's life.
1 to accompany that first dub on the return visit.
2 to take over the study when the first two decide the bulb isn't progressing fast enough and/or doesn't provide enough goodies on the visits.
1 to encourage the bulb to change when the bulb visits the Kingdom Hall for the first time.
3 to love bomb the bulb at the same time.
1 to get jealous of the attention being shown the bulb and decides to spread a rumor behind the bulb's back.
2 buddies to go along with the jealous one's false accusations.
3 elders to discuss the matter in a committee.
1 Circuit Overseer to stop that nonsense over an unbaptized bulb, but introduces new nonsense at the same time.
1 person at HQ to type up the C.O's report.
1 person in the Service Department to note the report and write a note to include a lecture to the friends for the next district convention.
2 dubs to baptize the bulb at the assembly, because the first guy accidently let the bulb's filament pop up above the water while dunking.
the march 1, 2002 watchtower contains a couple of articles on noah's flood and the application of this legend to "our day".
thrust of the articles is first to show that the flood was a real, earthwide event, and then to scare ignorant readers into accepting the jw message by claiming that our world is about to undergo a similar divine punishment.
pretty standard fare for long time jw observers.. in the past the watchtower society has published extensive material purporting to show that a global flood occurred a few thousand years ago.
Earnest,
Thank you very much for the follow-up and research. It does seem that there were a few people through history who rejected the global concept of a flood, to one degree or another. I wasn't aware of that, and find it interesting.
