The two carts stacked with all the same brochures is about merchandising techniques. Its the same principle supermarkets use for end of isle displays for example...
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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Cart witnessing in the quietest in my suburb.
by fulltimestudent ini walked to the station yesterday to meet a friend, and on the way, in what must be the quietest street in the entire suburb, were two j.witnesses and their little cart, all set with a literature display.
i wondered what point there may have been to choose that location.
i felt like grabbing one of their bibles and reading matthew 5:15 to them:.
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A retraction and apology - I posted incorrect information.
by doubtfull1799 init was recently brought to my attention by the person who was with me on the carts at the time, that a comment i made six months ago about the cart work on this forum was incorrect.
i apologise and in the interests of honesty and accuracy i feel it is only right to issue a public retraction.
i have quoted the post in question below as i am not sure how to correct or delete the original.
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doubtfull1799
@Steve2, yes I meant the first paragraph
@notsurewheretogo, no tis is not a windup - it is genuine
Yes, I know it is a small issue and the overall point I was making is still true. It might seem like a storm in a teacup, but there is a bigger issue: If we are going to call out the Society for their misleading, deceptive or inaccurate statements then we must hold ourselves to a higher standard and and be completely unhypocritical - we must be willing to be corrected when we are guilty of the same thing.
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A retraction and apology - I posted incorrect information.
by doubtfull1799 init was recently brought to my attention by the person who was with me on the carts at the time, that a comment i made six months ago about the cart work on this forum was incorrect.
i apologise and in the interests of honesty and accuracy i feel it is only right to issue a public retraction.
i have quoted the post in question below as i am not sure how to correct or delete the original.
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doubtfull1799
It was recently brought to my attention by the person who was with me on the carts at the time, that a comment I made six months ago about the cart work on this forum was incorrect. I apologise and in the interests of honesty and accuracy I feel it is only right to issue a public retraction. I have quoted the post in question below as I am not sure how to correct or delete the original.
The first sentence in this quote is incorrect. We did have 2 or three people take literature during the time we were in that location. I did not mean to mislead, I just have a bad memory and perhaps subconsciously I was guilty of hyperbole! The person who corrected me has a much better memory than I do and I trust their version of events! However the second and third paragraphs I still believe to be correct.
Up until I left recently I was participating in the cart work. In the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers. I thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.
I have an office in the centre of my city and I have recently been having lunch near where the brothers set up their carts and have been observing them for an hour or two at a time during the busiest lunch time traffic. And.... NOTHING!
In all the weeks I have been doing this I have not seen so much as ONE person stop or take anything. I sometimes stop for a quick chat with them on the way home, if it is someone I know, and ask them "how was business today?" They usually confirm that they had no interest, but try to spin it with the positive "but people are seeing us." -
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Philosophical implications of Genetic 1:26 and the personality of the Judeo-Christian God.
by doubtfull1799 inwhile visiting a still in friend last week we had an interesting discussion on narcissism.
he made a very interesting comment that got me thinking about the above.
we were discussing the nature of celebrity and fame and he mentioned that he would find it very difficult to cope with constant adulation and praise.
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doubtfull1799
While visiting a still in friend last week we had an interesting discussion on narcissism. He made a very interesting comment that got me thinking about the above. We were discussing the nature of celebrity and fame and he mentioned that he would find it very difficult to cope with constant adulation and praise. He said while he appreciates a kind word of thanks or acknowledgement of a job well done, as I'm sure we all do, he finds that gushing praise beyond that makes him very uncomfortable and his natural inclination is to try to deflect it or avoid it.
I found myself relating to what he was saying. Is this how other people feel? Is it only narcissists that enjoy constant praise and adulation? If so, what does this day about Gods personality given that he not only accepts constant adulation, but commands it? If we were truly created in His image, would he also not find it tiresome and disquieting? Wouldn't it make him uncomfortable? For me this is just one more thing that leads me to reject the Biblical idea of God. My guess, however, is that Christians would say that in God's case its not a problem because he is, well, God! He deserves constant praise and worship because ehe is the creator, so it would not be uncomfortable for him. It is only uncomfortable for us because as humans we recognise we do not deserve it.
That still doesn't make sense to me. I do not have children, but if I did I would not require their daily devotion got me for giving them life. Sure, I would expect a level of appreciation for me as the parent and provider and I would hope they love me. But I would expect this affection to be expressed spontaneously. I would not demand that they ritually praise me or give thanks to me every day, or every time I serve a meal. (like we are expected to do in prayer)
The only conclusion I can come to is God is the ultimate narcissist and/or that we were not created in His image. What are your thoughts? Especially interested to hear what what those who still claim to be Christian think? -
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A review of the WT study, "Do not let your love grow cold."
by doubtfull1799 ina while ago someone (i forget who) was doing a series, a regular analysis, of wt studies from the current week.
i have't seen any for a while so i thought i'd contribute one.
have a bit of fun picking out all the unsubstantiated assertions and logical fallacies etc... so here goes: (if you enjoy it let me know and i might try doing another.
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doubtfull1799
A while ago someone (I forget who) was doing a series, a regular analysis, of WT studies from the current week. I have't seen any for a while so I thought I'd contribute one. Have a bit of fun picking out all the unsubstantiated assertions and logical fallacies etc... so here goes: (If you enjoy it let me know and I might try doing another. Also, I am relatively new to the ins and outs of critical thinking so if I've misapplied a common fallacy or haven't quite got something right please feel free to correct me or add clarification so we can all learn)
Theme text: Matt 24:12 - "Because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold."
This is a kind of non-seqiuter, the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise, or the so-called "cause" postulated in the premise. It is saying people's love of God will wither because or as a result of increasing lawlessness. Cause and effect.
The causation has not been demonstrated (even if there does happen to be a correlation) and probably could not be demonstrated. In fact the writers of the article do not even attempt to demonstrate it, instead they choose to highlight their own causes for this love growing cold, namely materialism, seeking pleasure etc... none of these things necessarily break the law, biblical or Secular.
Par 1 - “ONE facet of the sign that Jesus gave regarding “the conclusion of the system of things” was that “the love of the greater number [would] grow cold.” (Matt. 24:3, 12) In the first century, the Jews, who claimed to be God’s people, allowed their love for God to grow cold.”
Unsubstantiated assertion about the Jews and about fulfilled prophecy in out time. How can this "coldness" of love be measured? Or demonstrated? Just because someone believes something else (loves God in a different way) does it mean they no longer love God at all? Are they really claiming that millions in Christendom (and millions in other religions for that matter) are not only misled and believe untruths, but they also are able to read their hearts and KNOW that they do not love God? Or are they simply inferring that from the fact that they believe these people are not honest hearted enough to accept their version of truth when they knock on their doors? Hence they do not love God enough to listen to the truth.
Par 3 - “Selfish pleasures evidently crowded out unselfish love.”
A false dichotomy - people who enjoy the pleasures of life are equally capable of unselfish love. It is not one or the other. In fact people who are passionate about life and the joys of it are often the same ones who do a lot hard, unselfish, and philanthropic work to make life better for others. You'll also notice the use of the word evidently here. This is one of the Watchtowers favourite words because it implies evidence when there is none, and so you don't have to provide any. If you don't believe me try it as a search time tin the Watchtower Library and see how many hits you get. And see how many times actual evidence was offered when the word was used. What they really means when they use the word "evidently" is "we believe this thing happened because of that thing because city fits in with our theological framework, and thats good enough evidence for us... AKA wilful ignorance.
Par 4 - “People today have less and less love for God. Millions have turned their backs on him and look to human institutions to solve mankind’s problems.”
Another false claim, arguing from ignorance. Yes people may look to and support Govt institutions that are trying to do good in the world, but this does not mean that they have turned their backs on God. Another false dichotomy. Why can't you support both if both are trying to do the right thing? They also seem to be claiming to have a monopoly on love.
Par 6 - “those who have spent their lives on pursuing material things or gratifying sexual desires have ended up disappointed and deeply hurt.”
Generalisation and stereotyping. There are always anecdotal accounts you can quote to support this statement but is it true of everyone in the category? Have they all been hurt by enjoying material things? Have people who kept their life simple NOT been hurt? Of course the truth is you will find both types of people in both categories.
Par 7 - “outspoken atheists, agnostics, and evolutionists promote ideas designed to erode not just love for God but also belief in him. They have convinced many that a person must be either naive or unintelligent to believe in a Creator. At the same time, scientists are revered”
Demonising their critics by accusing them of being too outspoken??? Do atheists knock on doors to try and convince people to stop believing in God? Do evolutionists? NO, in fact many evolutionists ARE Christians, they just accept the science of evolution. If they have convinced many perhaps it is because they offer convincing evidence, not because they are evil and deceptive! I don't think atheists or evolutions make claims about intelligence when it comes to accepting evolution, but claims about education or ignorance. Which scientists are recovered exactly outside a very small circle of other scientists. I would claim the opposite is true in terms of the general public - scientists struggle to be heard and have their research understood and respected, let alone getting any personal glory.
Par 8 - “In this wicked system controlled by Satan, all of us at times face discouraging circumstances. (1 John 5:19) Perhaps we are presently confronted with problems caused by old age, poor health, or economic pressures. Or we may be struggling with feelings of inadequacy, with unfulfilled expectations, or with personal failings. ”
I think someone may have already commented on this one, but sadly most of the conditions mentioned as causes for discouragement are not a result of Satan's system, but are just part of life, in fact the opposite may be the case, that they are often exacerbated by Watchtower teachings and lifestyle. Feelings of inadequacy and personal failing are bound to be a huge problem when you are constantly indoctrinated with the idea that you are a sinner, that nothing you do is, or could ever be, good enough.
Par 8 - “Indeed, Jehovah’s loyal love for his servants is constant. Therefore, we can be sure that he hears our “pleas for help” and responds to them.”
Well I think many of us here are examples to falsify this unsubstantiated assertion, I know I am. My please for help (and I prayed hard with unquestioned sincerity) when I had questions and doubts were met with complete silence, a complete lack of response. Did you find the same?
Par 10 - “ When we take sufficient time to express to Jehovah our deepest thoughts and innermost feelings, we cannot help but be drawn closer to our heavenly Father, the “Hearer of prayer.”
This is one I always struggled with even when I was zealous and devout. It is hard to be drawn to someones personality when they don't talk back to you, when they don't interact. When you're really only listening to the voice on your own head and trunk your best to "see" answers to your prayers that can't be affirmed with any certainly. Whatever feelings we had toward God I suspect were nothing more than our own projections onto the person we imagined we were talking to.
Par 11 - “As Christians, we cherish and embrace truth. ”
I nearly snorted the tea I was drinking through my nose when I read this one. If I may take a leaf out of the Watchtower playbook and use the word "evidently," not because eI don't have nay evidence but because I'm sure you all know the mountains of it that applies here. This statement is so evidently false, it is laughable. What they cherish is faith, believe, ignorance etc.
Par 12 - “ The psalmist went on to say: “How sweet your sayings are to my palate, more so than honey to my mouth!” (Ps. 119:103) Similarly, we can savor the tasty Bible-based spiritual food that we receive from God’s organization.”
As long as you cherry pick just the good "sweet" bits and ignore all the bitter bits you don't want tot think about!
Par 13 - “The prophet Jeremiah loved Scriptural truth.”
What scripture truth exactly? What scriptures existed in his time/did he have access to? How much of the Hebrew canon was set by then?
Par 14 - “The weekly study of the Bible with the help of The Watchtower is a principal means by which we are taught.”
I think this is a miss-print, it should actually read, "the weekly study of the Organisation's eisegesic commentary on selected cherry picked verses of scripture."
Par 16 - “Having love for our brothers and sisters is linked to the love we have for Jehovah. In fact, we cannot have one without the other. The apostle John wrote: “The one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.” (1 John 4:20) Furthermore, our love for Jehovah and our brothers is linked to our love for the Bible.”
Unsubstantiated assertion and false absolute that denies all the love that is shown on the world by non-witnesses as if they have a monopoly on it or are the only one who know how to feel it or show it. They are essentially saying that an atheist can't love, a Bhuddist can't love, A Muslim can't love etc etc.. beause none of them know Jehovah, completely ignoring their other doctrine that we were all supposedly created in Gods image
It may be true (I'm not saying it is) that someone who doesn't love his brother cannot love God, but even if it is, it doesn't mean the reverse is true. I'm not sure which fallacy this is (perhaps someone can help?) but you can't always assume the reverse of something to be true.
That will do for now... if you found any others in this article please add them!
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Magistrate says Jehovah's Witnesses are complicit because they failed to report to authorities
by jw news 2017 in"former jehovah's witness jailed for historical sex offences against young sisters... .
sentencing magistrate bernadette boss noted it was "most unfortunate" that once again a church had failed to notify the authorities about an allegation of sexual abuse.. that made the church complicit in the matters and "appears to have exacerbated the effect on the victims of the offence," dr boss said...".
quoted text from the web page :.
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doubtfull1799
I regret to inform you that I am one of those elders you claim should be liable to prosecution, and I certainly wouldn't blame the victim if she decide to sue the elders involved, though she will not do so which I will explain further on. Yes I was one of the elders on the judicial case mentioned in the article posted by the OP that has now been brought to trial. I testified and gave statements in this case.
I realise admitting this opens me to a lot of criticism, and I am am willing to cop it, but just some background info to add some perspective. With the full benefit of hindsight I deeply regret my participation in that case and the fact that I followed orders and did not do enough to speak up for the victim and help her get the professional assistance she needs at the time. It is important to emphasise, though, that is my feeling alone - the other two elders on the case still believe they did the right thing and did all they could, AS DOES THE VICTIM. I personally spoke to the victim just before the trial and apologised to her, but she made it quite clear she holds no ill will towards me or the committee, only the perpetrator. (She is still a faithful believer, a full committed JW who as far as I can tell hold no animosity towards the Society either)
I was a young elder at the time - in fact it was one of my first judicial cases just a few years after being appointed . I had no training to handle such a case and deferred mostly to the two much more experienced elders on the committee, and of course followed all instruction we received from Bethel. I was quite clear about this in my statements to the police as well. While the other elders colluded on their story (I know this because they tried to tried to collude with me before the trial as well, wanting to make sure I was going to sau the same thing as them!) I was quote honest in my testimony about how I felt we had not supported the victim sufficiently and how in hindsight I regretted that we did not report it to the police. How I could clearly see the necessity of it now, but at the time I was deluded by my indoctrination into thinking it was more important to protect the "honour" of the congregation. In fact looking back I'm sad to say I think we spent more time hashing the case out with the Better service rep, dotting the I's and tossing the T's, than we did actually talking to, listening to, and helping the victim...
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10 years on.....
by snare&racket ini was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.
i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.
i had been a pioneer.
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doubtfull1799
Great experience, thanks for sharing.
Love the fallacy that Doctors will not be needed, even if we did find ourselves perfect physical specimens in a "new world." Pretty sure we'd still trip over things and hurt ourselves or break limbs playing sport etc.....
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Seth Andrews. "The Thinking Athiest" If you have not yet heard of him, do yourself a favour!
by stuckinarut2 infor those who now lean toward non-belief in religion or theism or deism, or who identify as atheist, you have to check out all of seth andrews work!he was raised as a fundamentalist christian in the usa, and was a pastor, and christain radio host until he awoke.
he now is an atheist and hosts a great podcast called "the thinking athiest".
you will find great videos on youtube, as well as his weekly podcast:.
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doubtfull1799
I second that!
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Does this remind you of another company we know & love? - PR experts
by doubtfull1799 inthis is a mock interview with a fictional character who is a pr rep in an australian comedy/parody of the public service.
the show is called utopia.
this was a pro piece for thew start of the new season.
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doubtfull1799
This is a mock interview with a fictional character who is a PR rep in an Australian comedy/parody of the public service. The show is called Utopia. This was a pro piece for thew start of the new season. The "NBA" is the fictional Govt department thew works in.
Questions for Rhonda, the Nation Building Authority's public relations guru.
When and why did you decide on a career in communications?
I realised I had a talent for making bold claims unsupported by evidence a few years back when working as a lobbyist for the multi-vitamin industry. Since then I've fallen in love with the time-honoured art of shaping a message, creating talking points, changing topic at will.
What kind of training was required?
I spent two years as chief of staff to a former state minister. My role was leaking cabinet documents and issuing denials – but it provided an excellent background.
What is the golden rule for a successful PR campaign?
Never treat the public as stupid. They are, of course, but you've got to at least look like you're taking them seriously.
What aspect of your work do you find most fulfilling?
Formulating policy and document shredding.
What have you learned in your time with the NBA?
Building infrastructure is too important to be left to engineers and economists. What's the point of a new toll-road if it doesn't have the right comms team to design its logo?
If you had to give NBA chief Tony Woodford one piece of advice, what would it be?
Don't speak until you've taken a moment to collect your thoughts, formulate an appropriate response. Then still don't speak.
Which NBA project do you believe will be of most benefit to the country?
The (soon-to-be-announced) Adelaide to Rockhampton Very Fast Train. It crosses 11 marginal electorates in less than half a day.
What goals have you yet to realise?
Alcohol-free weekdays are still proving a challenge.
What is your five-year plan?
I am currently working with the gambling industry on a campaign to have online betting ads classified as "community service announcements". I think we're close.
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doubtfull1799
Spot on! Still waiting for your video rebuttal??? I think it would be a good one.... you can wear a Guy Faulks mask like Anonymous do.