Sangdigger

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Posts by Sangdigger

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  18

  Need help with the Trinity

  by dins in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been talking to a coworker of mine about religion and it's been rather interesting; it involves accepting christ into your heart as your saviour.

  another thing is the trinity.. is there anything that any of you have found in the bible based on these beliefs.

  i keep reading scriptures about god being one, and christ his son but then my coworker insists they are one in the same.. how, if anyway.

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  Sangdigger

  a christian, thanks for that interesting post. You broke it down probably better than i could have ever done.

  One thing i wanted to mention was the doctrine of the trinity takes on different forms for different people. Just because someone says they believe in "the trinity" doesnt mean they believe in the same trinity doctrine the early church fathers taught.

  One form of the doctrine claims that the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same person. The argument used is that a person can be a Father and a Son at the same time, and thats what God is, and he manifest himself in different ways. This is reffered to as Modelness or Oneness.

  The original doctrine of course states that God is made up of 3 persons. All equal in power and nature and one in agreement. I believe this is the God of scripture, as pointed out in the above posts.

  THe bible says that a man and a woman when joined in marriage, become ONE FLESH. That to me is a mystery in itself. I believe Christ is in submission to the Father much like a wife is in submission to the husband, or a human son to his father. But he is the same in nature, equal in power, and does the Fathers will.

  I remember the JW's using the argument that Jesus couldnt be God, or he would be praying to himself in the Garden (and elsewhere when he was a man) but that would maybe only disprove modelness or oneness, not the 3 persons in One doctrine.

  When you get right down to it, as Francois basically said, do we need a God we can figure out anyway?

  But if Jesus isnt God, then why are we told to worship him, when only God is worthy of our worship?
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  7

  How dishonest is this?

  by RR in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  today i was reading the feb 15, 2003 watchtower, they quote volume 6 of "studies in the scriptures", "the new creation" written by c.t.

  russell in 1904. there was an asterisk next to the "studies in the scriptures", know what the footnote said?

  "published by jehovah's witnesses but now out of print.

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  Sangdigger

  The bretheren everywhere will please ignore any statement in letters or anything else fixing dates as to when the lord will perform some part of his great work. All our times are in the lords hands

  Why did'nt they listen to their own advice? Obviously they really didnt mean it.
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  12

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses Becoming More Outreach Minded?

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in 2001 when houston was flooded, thousands of jw volunteers turned up to help fellow jws and a few non-witnesses benefited as well.. in 2002 when mount nyirangongo in goma, congo erupted jws sent aid that helped both jws and non-jws alike.. http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=humanitarian.htm .

  and according to the feb. 15, 2003 watchtower, under the heading "life in a refugee camp" material assistance has been given to everyone in these camps in tanzania.

  see page 16 and especially this quote: "the witnesses in europe have collected tons of soy milk, clothes, shoes, schoolbooks, and soap.

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  Sangdigger

  They really have nothing to brag about. The Morman church donates millions of dollars of charity items every year. (of course members pay 10% of their earnings every year to the church) But one thing that did impress me about the mormans, is they usually distribute all charity items out to the local churches, (no matter what denomination) to be evenly distributed to those in need.

  Hang in there Mouthy!!!!!
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  11

  Goodbye Mr. Rogers

  by Xandria in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  mr. rogers died ... .

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  Sangdigger

  Yeah, well at least now he'll get a ressurection.
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  6

  What are the baptism questions....

  by starfish422 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can someone point me to a website with the baptismal questions on them?

  just the ones they ask you during the baptism talk.

  :) thanks.. peace.

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  Sangdigger

  Old hippie, thanks for the info. Im curious to see what i agreed to 22 years ago. Cheers
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  6

  What are the baptism questions....

  by starfish422 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can someone point me to a website with the baptismal questions on them?

  just the ones they ask you during the baptism talk.

  :) thanks.. peace.

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  Sangdigger

  All the language seems pretty much the same untill 1985. Then apparently the spirit started working throught the org. only, and not individuals.

  There was also another long list of questions (like 90 of them) from a book that you had to answer correctly befor being "approved" to be baptized. Does anybody know what the boook was? or what the questions were?

  thanks
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  4

  Eternal Life through Jesus - When did it start?

  by anti-absolutism in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok this one might seem odd to some people... as christians, (i personally am not sure if i want to consider myself christian yet) is the belief that, since christ gave us the opportunity to have eternal life, or an immortal soul, that it was only after his death that we had the opportunity?

  in other words did the people who died before his death not have the opprtunity and therefore are still just dead?.

  your response is appreciated, as brief as possible, please.

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  Sangdigger

  The way i look at it is it was already done ( christs sacrifice) in Gods mind and purpose. The old Testament phrophets more or less recieved credit although it hadnt happened yet. Kind of like a credit card that would be paid in full at Calvary.

  Whats also interesting to note is in Hebrews not only does it explain that they (O.T. Prophets) having seen this promise from afar off and were persuaded of it, but also that they desired a heavenly home. Opposite of JWs who say the O.T. Prophets would be in the paradise earth. Oh well
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  34

  "Dead conscious of nothing at all" .....

  by anti-absolutism in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  when speaking to a jw the other day, i didn't really have a good explanation of ecclesiastes 9:5, where it says that the dead are conscious of nothing at all.. what is everybody's take on it?

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  Sangdigger

  Absoluteism, well said!!! I think you are right about us not knowing alot of things now. Although there are some things that are alot more clear than others. I hope its not too late to comment on this topic, in view of what you said about being confused, but this topic has always interested me much like several other orthodox teachings.

  What i have learned so far, (and i'm just scraping the tip of the iceburg) is that the "Immortality of the Soul" as mainstream Christianity teaches is incorrect in that the title itself is flawed. To be immortal not only means no ending, but no beginning.(Everlasting) At the very least, it means pre-mortal existance. If you have a basic understanding of the bible, you know this to be unbiblical. Only Christ himself was immortal (not in his earthly body) in that he existed before his incarnation and after.

  What everybody is talking about on this post i think, is the interim state. The state of the soul/spirit immediantly after death. I agree with neon-madman about the book of Ecclesiastes and what is implied. If only christ (and possibly some angels that materialized in physical bodies) had immortality than it stands to reason he never ceased to exist. I know now we could go on and on about where Christ was in the 3 days before his ressurection. Of course the JWs believe he didnt exist those 3 days. I dont really believe that, but at the same time, i dont think WE have immortal souls, perhaps everlasting souls. We are made from the dust of the ground, and the soul that sins will die. From the early writings of the early church fathers, the main theme of the bible was the Ressurection. Paul even said in 2 Cor. 5:1-8 that he desired to be clothed. Surely he wouldnt be refering to some disembodied spirit waiting for a body. But at the same time, his language was very strong that to depart, would mean to be with the Lord. My immediant thoughts to this, are 2) conclusions : 1) Those who are dead are apparantly outside of time. Since they are not aware of time, it could be as simple as blinking your eyes. In the blink of an eye, you are transported to the presence of God. 2) God literally creates a heavenly body for believers immediantly upon death. Then they are given a glorified body at the ressurection. But im just not convinced that everyone has some part of them that doesnt die, but floats off to a destination. The greeks believed in this, and i think the doctrine crept into the church through time.

  As you probably know, there are many scriptures on both sides of the argument for or againts soul sleep. As utopian (i think) posted earlier, it really doesnt matter, we know that it will all turn out right, for we are in his hands, the Grand creator who does all things for his Glory and for our good. Maybe someone can start another topic on Soul Sleep (i'm sure its been done a thousand times).
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  22

  Husband puts off wifes funeral for Elders meeting

  by Sangdigger in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading minimuses post under "friends" about a sister who kept up auxillary pioneering even though her 5 year old daughter died, it brought to mind a similar story that happened just 2 months ago in a large cong.

  an elder serving in that cong.

  for many years now, lost his wife to heart complications.

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  Sangdigger

  While reading minimuses post under "friends" about a sister who kept up auxillary pioneering even though her 5 year old daughter died, it brought to mind a similar story that happened just 2 months ago in a large cong.

  An elder serving in that cong. for many years now, lost his wife to heart complications. The woman was survived by her husband and 4 kids. She died on Tuesday night, and the very next day, her kids were out in field service. The funeral was scheduled for that following Saturday, but the Elder husband, had to postpone the service, due to an Elders training meeting that was in a nearby town. The funeral was finally held two weeks later. The eldest son gave a part on the meeting Thurs. night, and after the meeting, seemed perfectly happy, and said how his mother would be better off. I dont know exactly what he meant by that, but it was a known fact that the parents had their problems.

  I'm very sorry for the loss suffered, and do not wish to belittle the way some people handle grief, but to put off your wifes funeral so as to not miss an Elders meeting is just about the most disrespectful thing i can think of. Once again, the Org. comes first. It just shows how the emphasis is put on not wasting alot of time grieving, but to get on with business as usual.
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  26

  What do you think when you go by a Kingdom Hall?

  by TresHappy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i drive by a kh every day, since it's very close to my work route, and i was wondering if anyone else secretly cheers that they don't have to go back into one of those things.

  when i see a few cars parked there on the weekday, i am so thankful i don't have to go out and talk that stuff to strangers.

  any thoughts?

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  Sangdigger

  I think about how glad i am that i dont have to B.S anyone about my spirituality, and put up with all the genuine phoniness, or answer to questions about why i missed 3 meeting in a row, ect......