Posts by konceptual99

10

What is Ibid?

by Belladonna75 in

hi all, i'm diving deep into historical jw literature research and i keep seeing ibid as a frequently cited source - what is this?

i've tried the old google, but no luck.

does this stand for something (i'm probably missing something incredibly obvious) or have i spent too many hours reading 1930s the golden age magazines and depleted all my electrons already?

Reject WT Thinking - November 2017 WT article commented (p. 20)

by Master_Bob in

i really liked this kind of articles when back in borg, because they address the issues i was most concerned about.

or at least i thought that they address, because they don't.

i marked all the deceptive techniques and logical manipulations they use as a mental exercise and would like to share with you.

New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

by pale.emperor in

has anyone else heard this?

a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

Interesting video SBF - I'd forgotten that one. I think anyone with any experience of attending meetings will recognise that over the years DF'ed people sit at the back. I think that regardless of what the WT says about it not being a rule the practice continues for a number of reasons:

1 - practicality. Coming in and leaving during the song means it's easier to slip in and out when at the back.

2 - reserved seating. Often the back rows and/or the second school (as shown in the video) are reserved for late comers and families.

3 - culture. The rules that are rules even when the WT says they are not rules. The recent beard thing in the WT is another good example

4 - WT subliminal indoctrination. This video is a good example. "We'll tell you it's not a rule but what we show you reflects the age old cultural norm". The same happens time and time again with beards - "we've told you it's ok to have a beard and will not prevent spiritual (aka WT career) progression but we will show men shaving all the time".

As has been said numerous times on the thread, it's all ultimately about control.

43

New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

by pale.emperor in

has anyone else heard this?

a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

konceptual99

I should add that the above article has a footnote to confirm it updates previous direction in The Watchtower of April 1, 1953, page 223.

This is referenced by Blondie in this thread...

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/253276/_post/4747564

43

New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

by pale.emperor in

has anyone else heard this?

a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

konceptual99

OK - it was longer ago than I thought but here is the article about where DF'ed ones can sit.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130815/disfellowshipped-child-seating-location/

Although the title refers to children it is clear that a DF'ed person of any age can sit anywhere just so long as they respect where they are.

43

New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

by pale.emperor in

has anyone else heard this?

a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

konceptual99

They only published info to the contrary in the past year or two.

34

cleveland ohio RC notes

by nowwhat? in

peak attendance 7100. baptised 38 mixed bag of old and young.

youngest age 10. saw no brothers with beards.

better than average .50% growth.

konceptual99

There is also no real indication of how many people have serious doubts and are essentially going through the motions. I know of at least 4 brothers who are not what I would call mentally out but have serious questions about things and are drifting in terms of reaching out because they can't face pushing things they are not sure about themselves. I suspect the true number of those in a similar position is much higher.

11

"For God Loved the World so much that he gave his only Begotten Son in order that ....faith ..not destroyed ..everlasting life.

by smiddy in

or is their an inconsistency / contradiction here somewhere .?

in genesis god allows satan after deceiving the first human pair to go relatively unpunished for thousands of years interacting between heaven and earth at will.. the so called punishment is not to take effect until thousands of years later.. in the meantime .. the wager ( ?

) between jehovah and satan over jobs loyalty in question ,and obviously satan still having communication with god in the heavens.

konceptual99

What Witnesses are conveniently choosing to forget and being conditioned to forget by the WTS is that the Bible contains the predictions for the end by their OWN interpretation.

It's Jesus that gives the signs of the times of the end. It's Jesus that talks about a generation. It's the Bible that gives a succession of events to note in Revelation. It's the Bible that sets up the establishment of a Kingdom to recover the situation lost in Eden.

Yes - the precise date is not recorded. Yes - there is counsel about the day coming as a thief in the night. But the Bible is apparently full of signs that would lead observant ones to conclude the time is close.

Yet now, whilst the supposed poor state of the world is used to make ones feel like something needs to change the fact that the Bible is clear about there being a start and, critically, an END to the last days is given less and less attention. People are told to have faith that it is imminent without any concrete evidence whilst not serving for a date whilst Jesus was crystal clear about a generation and other references like the days being needing to be CUT SHORT.

Either these mean something or they don't.

Given that the WTS cannot deny that they DO mean something then they are forced to simply go down the route of cognitive dissonance and encourage people not to think about it and kid themselves that actually timescales related to prophecies about the last times mean nothing other than it's imminent.

I guarantee that not one Witness will be able to provide a straight answer as to if the end if imminent or not, scriptural reasons for the understanding on the generation and what the reason for signs are if a date does not matter. They will deflect, obfuscate, deny, squirm, whirl - anything to avoid being straight since it simply means confusion.

If they refuse to say the end is imminent then they should watch Tony's closing remarks from the convention - "the end is imminent" - and then ask if they agree or not. As a side point - this to me is exactly like 1975 - the WTS making statements that they will never have to answer for. This is the video btw...

https://jw.servehttp.com/rc17.php?is=CO17_E_146_No52-41.mp4

They simply cannot have it both ways yet are trying their damnest to make it so.

11

"For God Loved the World so much that he gave his only Begotten Son in order that ....faith ..not destroyed ..everlasting life.

by smiddy in

or is their an inconsistency / contradiction here somewhere .?

in genesis god allows satan after deceiving the first human pair to go relatively unpunished for thousands of years interacting between heaven and earth at will.. the so called punishment is not to take effect until thousands of years later.. in the meantime .. the wager ( ?

) between jehovah and satan over jobs loyalty in question ,and obviously satan still having communication with god in the heavens.

konceptual99

Ah yes - you are right FedUp. The letter was in Feb this year.

They still may make the first step just not as a result of a formal yearly arrangement.

Rather, elders should use good judgment in determining when and how to make brief contact with disfellowshipped or disassociated individuals. For example, if a disfellowshipped individual gives some evidence of changing his ways, an elder could remind the individual of how he can return to Jehovah. Such brief contact could be made while an elder engages in the house-to-house ministry. While shopping, an elder may see a disfellowshipped person who ha not been contacted in years and choose to approach him. An older or infirm elder may find it more practical to make contact by telephone.

https://jw.servehttp.com/l2017.php?is=20170228LTE_us.pdf

Thanks for the reminder of the policy change.

24

Aust census: incomes: JWs falling further behind?

by shepherdless in

time for some more stats, for your interest and comments.... it has been well documented in the past that, as a group, incomes for jws are lower than virtually any other religion, in australia.

rather than repeat that exercise here, i set out some detail about the gap between jws and ordinary australians.. 1. jws typically earn much less.

here is a bar chart of income brackets, comparing jw incomes against other australians.

konceptual99

What slants them is the emphasis on pioneering from school, vocational training stopping at 18 rather than university, demonising of careers and career development and so on. [EDIT] - ultimately minimising education that can help them be financially astute.

Few young Witnesses have a good level of understanding of economics. They are told to rely on Jehovah, lead a so called "simple life", rather than make sound financial plans. Whilst debt is discouraged it becomes an inevitability for many who try and stick to the implied rules on what is an acceptable level and type of work yet long for the gadgets, possessions and holidays of those with more income.

Most of them never wanted to be in debt, they just aren't savvy enough to avoid it.

Don't forget as well that debt is not limited to Witnesses and it's often regardless of income. If you are financially astute you can have plenty of disposable income even on relatively low wages. Being born into a Witness family often means you never learn sound financial advice even if offered. The culture encourages ignorance.