konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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1
A brief overview of concepts of how life developed - from the UK BBC
by fulltimestudent inhttp://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20161026-the-secret-of-how-life-on-earth-began.
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Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?
by StephaneLaliberte inright now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.
the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.
for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!
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konceptual99
In principle I don't actually completely disagree with the instruction to call Bethel Legal in as much as there are potentially legal obligations and implications for the elders that they may not be aware of, especially in a country where local (e.g. state) laws and agencies may differ. The problem is that the WTS has a cultural deficiency in being able to understand what is the moral and ethical right course of action compared to what their legal obligations are. They would rather the government tell them what to do than even consider changing their policies to reflect the best practice being implemented by many other organisations.
This is a cultural meme that replicates itself through the hierarchy. It is why elders, some of whom are intelligent and thoughtful people, cannot find it in themselves to follow their conscience and take action even when not explicitly forbidden by their superiors at Bethel. It is why relatives of victims cannot take action as their deference to WTS culture overrides their own moral judgement. It's why loyal congregation members support the organisation and it's policies without ever questioning or considering that morals, ethics and conscience can override whatever the legal obligations of a organisation or individual may be.
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Reveal releases outstanding audio w/Trey Bundy doing interviews. One is with a former Bethelite who cared for old GB members
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/episodes/secrets-of-the-watchtower/?utm_source=reveal&utm_medium=dist&utm_campaign=zalkin.
not only will you hear howie tran, former-bethelite, but irwin zalkins talks about watchtower's child abuse secrets.
debbie mcdaniels talks about her child abuse and you will hear trey actually talking to the jw who molested her..
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konceptual99
Thanks for the heads up on this Barbara and JWLeaks. This was an excellent listen - well recommended.
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Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?
by StephaneLaliberte inright now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.
the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.
for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!
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konceptual99
The anonymous tipping of the police? Sorry, but this really sounds like something made up by loyals trying to make the watchtower look better. I cannot think of one valid reason why the society would need to be doing this anonymously, especially if it is the law.
I only mention anecdotal as I did not have first hand experience. I have had two elders (one was my father) relate experiences they have dealt with where they were advised they could report. This was in the case of minors at risk. There is no doubt this circumstance is rare and I am certainly not suggesting that there is any proactive response by the organisation when the question of the moral and ethical responsibilities of the elders is raised - the precisely opposite situation is the case in the 99% of cases, as shown by the first hand experiences on this thread.
There are specific instructions to report anonymously as evidenced by the internal Bethel memo posted as part of the ARC submissions. This only applies in the case where mandatory reporting is concerned.
The anonymous aspect of the reporting is typical Bethel legal nonsense designed to protect the organisation from being dragged into the matter in any manner.
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Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?
by StephaneLaliberte inright now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.
the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.
for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!
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konceptual99
The WT have written instructions used within Bethels where mandatory reporting is required that say elders are to report anonymously. I have heard anecdotal evidence of instructions being passed in other circumstances involving minors but I think this is very rare.
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The sugar cube.
by The Rebel infirstly thanks to cofty & smiddy for the kind words on my " final post" .
this post is simply to say over two months have passed since my last post and since then i have with my wife and son seen elton john live, visited stockholm, berlin, and most importantly appreciated " the natural beauty of my neighbourhood" with out even thinking about the watchtower.
i have also attended 3 watford football matches with my son and made better relationships with my parents, discovered harvey's draught beer and made new friends in my local pub.
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konceptual99
Harvey's - that's an ale local to me from Lewes in Sussex. Are you this way Rebel or local to Watford?
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clinking of glasses
by sosad1 inhello all - long ago i posted under sosad..... cant get back under that name so hello again.
i though i remember in hte last couple of years that there was a change in the strict practice of not clinking glasses and toasting,,, that it was more of a conscience decision.. was i dreaming this?
any help towards printed information on this subject is very much appreciated..
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konceptual99
That reference uses Exodus 23:2 as a scriptural reference supposedly to back up the thought that just because others do it, ignorant of any possible symbolism, that's no reason for Witnesses to do it.
The verse says:
You must not follow after the crowd to do evil, and you must not pervert justice by giving testimony to go along with the crowd.
Even this verse suggests a link with a legal application. This becomes clear with the context. Here are verses 1-3:
You must not spread* a report that is not true. Do not cooperate with a wicked one by becoming a malicious witness. 2 You must not follow after the crowd to do evil, and you must not pervert justice by giving testimony to go along with the crowd. 3 You must show impartiality in the dispute of a poor person.
This is obviously related to prohibitions on perverting the course of justice by either giving false testimony, being swayed by the crowd to change evidence or not being impartial with evidence regardless of the social and material standing of the accused.
Accepted, there is a principle that says you don't have to do something just to follow the crowd but there is no other scriptural evidence that specifically prohibits or even questions the appropriateness of toasting. If the WTS was consistent in it's application of prohibitions to everything that had some potentially pagan source then perhaps it would be reasonable but they are not. Even the above WT reference uses examples like pomegranates and the raising of hands to illustrate that other things may be construed to have a pagan association yet were acceptable.
Just like things like blood the logic is inconsistent and without foundation. As Anders says... it is wrong because the WTS says so. I don't think I've ever come across a Witness that does it and claims it's a matter of conscience however I may just give it go sometime just for a laugh.
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Black Mirror White Christmas
by enigma1863 inhave any or you seen the show black mirror?
there is an episode called white christmas.
its based in the future and everyone has this app in their brain similar to a modern smartphone.
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konceptual99
Charlie Brooker. His work is great and is similar in many ways to Chris Morris. Very dark but brilliant.
I've always found it slightly odd that he and Connie Huq hit it off however....
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Has the rebranding worked?
by MrTheocratic init's been several years since the start of the rebranding of jehovahs witnesses.
i believe it started with the website change.
ever since then the religion has moved in a more modern direction.
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konceptual99
Driving down the A316 past Twickenham the other evening and drove past a car with a big JW.ORG sign all over the back window. As outlaw says the internal rebrand is very successful...
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"It is the victims right to approach authorities" The weak excuse used by the society
by stuckinarut2 inwe have seen that the society falls back on the line "it is the victims right to approach the authorities" during all the abuse claims.. they use this excuse to try and defend the passive lack of action in failing to report suspected cases of abuse.. a comparison came to mind:.
if we came across a person lying in the street who says they were hit by a car, would we say "it is your absolute right to call the paramedics and police"?.
or would we take the initiative and call those authorities ourselves to help the person?.
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konceptual99
Sitting a young female minor sexualy abused victim down with three older men in a judicial committee meeting often in the presence of the perpetrator and being grilled by all of them is not traumatising the young victim ?
They have to be kidding.Agreed. Disgusting actions.
Knowing about these abuses and not reporting them to the relevant authorities makes them an accessary after the fact of a crime being committed and they should be prosecuted.
Unfortunately the law in the US, the UK and many other places seems to disagree. If there is no mandatory requirement to report an allegation then there is no legal requirement for them to do anything. Having knowledge of an allegation does not make one an accessory. Even if you know an offence has been committed does not automatically make one an accessory. Of course the moral argument is very different but fundamentally this is why the WTS has had just a dangerous policy for so many years.
The WTS is notoriously legalistic and uses legal argument to wriggle in and out of situations all the time. It is 100% consistent for them to have a policy that frames their obligations from a legal perspective and not from a moral or humanitarian perspective when it comes to any matter whether that be construction or child protection.
Jackson's submission to the ARC exposes their true colours vividly when he made a less than subtle suggestion to the ARC that they recommend mandatory reporting across the board. Why? So that they would not be have to discuss it internally and unilaterally end up with a policy where morality trumps legality. They want the State to do what they seem to consider as dirty work for them.