konceptual99

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Posts by konceptual99

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  3

  The Other Prince (Buster ) Has Passed Away

  by BluesBrother in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  the king of jamaican ska.. an icon of his time and a giant of his genre has left us , i believe i his late seventies.

  .

  there was a time when prince buster records would be played at any live gig , between sets .r.i p..

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  konceptual99

  Great loss. His influence on music is seriously underrated.
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  39

  Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?

  by Zana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?

  although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.

  and of course people are expected to follow them.

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  konceptual99

  When talking about this, one told me, you actually can. His example was a change about the question whether miscarriages or stillborn babies have hope of a resurrection or not. First the GB said, "No, they don't." But after receiving many letters from concerned JWs they changed this to "We don't know."

  IF true then fair enough but this really is an exception. The GB are not immune to reason sometimes and have shied away from certain dogmatic statements over recent years.

  You try having an open conversation with people in your local hall about things like:

  - the biblical reasoning for the generation teaching and how it's changed over the years

  - the complete lack of any evidence for a global flood

  - the overwhelming evidence that man has been here for way over 6000 years

  - whether or not the organisation needs any reform of it's child protection "policies"

  - the increasing super-stardom of the GB

  - the inconsistencies in the blood policy

  - the UN scandal

  - hypocrisy with the situations in Malawi and Mexico 50 years ago

  - promoting change to the disfellowshipping policy

  and so on....

  The fact is that there is no way of being any kind of dissident without turning yourself into an apostate worthy of being DFed.

  In this context, the GB deciding they don't actually know if still-born babies will be resurrected is of zero consequence.
  
  
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  39

  Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?

  by Zana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?

  although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.

  and of course people are expected to follow them.

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  konceptual99

  This "old light" "new light" shite really grates on me.
  If "new light" comes out and replaces "old light" who got the "old light" wrong?

  This is precisely why the GB has worked hard to try and remove the terms from the vocabulary of the Witnesses.

  They have not used the terms in the context of doctrinal understandings for many years. The online library going back to 2000 has nothing with these phrases. "Progressive/increasing light" and "clarification" are the terms you should use. They don't even use terms that would suggest what went before has changed.
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  39

  Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?

  by Zana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?

  although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.

  and of course people are expected to follow them.

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  konceptual99

  A law may be changed due to it being unjust, inappropriate or relevant to contemporary situations.

  When laws are enacted they reflect the moral and social perceptions of the law makers. They are not considered "truth" nor are they considered unchangable. Some laws are enacted without the overwhelming support of the people and in most countries people are free to protest and lobby for change.

  For example, homosexuality was illegal in the UK for many years until the moral and social conscience of the majority of society incited change. We currently have laws banning the use of certain drugs yet the debate goes on about if these laws should be changed to better tackle the social issues caused through abuse. One could never say never to change to these laws even if you think they are the best way forward right now.

  The WTS has not used the term "new light" for ages. They recognise it's link to u-turns and flip-flopping doctrine. They use terms like "increasing light" and "clarification" to imply progression and evolution rather than complete change. They try to deflect through semantics the fact that a "clarified" understanding can be the polar opposite of the previous belief yet they both count as the "truth" in their own times.

  You cannot criticise a current teaching of the WTS. You cannot lobby for change. You cannot show any dissent. You cannot enforce change. You cannot survey or poll the membership to gauge opinion. It's even pretty hard to criticise a previous teaching since that is an implied dig at the GB for only trying to do their best at the time. Embarrassing details are brushed under the carpet, simply ignored and never referred to. Doctrine changes are never because something was unjust, inappropriate or irrelevant.

  You can trace most "increasing light" and "clarifications" down to one of the following:

  - saving the org money

  - making the org money

  - minimising legal exposure

  - controlling the membership

  - covering up prophetic failures

  The comparison with law making is not even close.
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  82

  meeting with elders about WT involvement in UN

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i still go to the meetings because of my in wife and it came about that the elders knew of my pissed off attitude about the society getting involved in the un.

  so the elders said they could help me get over that and wanted to meet with me.

  now just to let you know, i have only told my wife and her mom so far about it, that's it.

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  konceptual99

  Just caught up with this LevelTPF. That's two hours of your life you'll never get back .

  I think you probably did the right thing. As expected the elders were not going to being interested in what you had to say, just to gauge if you were going to be making trouble or go back into your shell.

  Pushing the point would only escalate things and if that's not what you want then you had to back down and keep stum. The thing is they don't care what you have to say, it would have been wasted breath anyway.

  Hopefully your wife is placated a bit now and you can carry on.

  
  
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  18

  Joseph and his generation

  by maninthemiddle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the wt used ex 1:6 to define a generation from the very beginning.

  then in the this september broadcast the same person (splain) who spent 20 min with charts to explain a generation, makes a point that joseph and his brothers were very close in age?

  (min 4:29).

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  konceptual99

  This is the transcript of Splane's explanation of Exodus 1:6 from the September 2015 broadcast.

  Around 2:50 in September 2015 broadcast.

  Now if you were asked by someone to identify a scripture that tells us what a generation is, what scripture would you turn to? I'll give you a moment. Think about that.
  My choice is Exodus 1:6. Let's read that. Exodus 1:6.
  Joseph eventually died, and also all his brothers, and all that generation.
  Now what do we know about Joseph's family? We know that Joseph had 11 brothers, 10 of them were older than Joseph. One of them, Benjamin, was younger. And we know that at least two of Joseph's brothers actually lived longer than Joseph because the bible says that that on his deathbed he called his "brothers", plural, to him.
  Now what did Joseph and his brothers all have in common? They were all contemporaries. They had all lived at the same time. They were part of the same generation.
  Now suppose there was a man who died 10 minutes before Joseph was born. Would he be part of Joseph's generation? No, because he'd never lived at the same time as Joseph. He was not a contemporary of Joseph's. Now suppose there was a little baby who was born 10 minutes after Joseph died. Would the baby be part of Joseph's generation? Again, no, because the baby would not have lived at the same time as Joseph. For the man and the baby to part of Joseph's generation they would have had to have lived at least sometime during Joseph's lifespan.
  So now we've discovered what it means to have a generation, what makes up a generation, it's a group of contemporaries. It's a group of people who have lived at the same time.

  As you can see, it's already a very specific and unusual definition of a generation to cover only people that lived at exactly the same time even if the overlap is very small. If you read that scripture and asked someone what a generation was, would anyone interpret that as anyone that was born within a 110 period, even if they then went on to live another 50,60 years?

  The point that actually Joseph's brothers were very close in age is consistent with a more typical understanding of a generation as those peers of yours, those around a similar age. I wonder if the WTS has used this scripture with this understanding in the past to attempt to justify previous beliefs where the generation was more like 70 years or so?
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  9

  What is "marked"?

  by LifesNotOver in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been curious for a while ... what is it when people type "marked" in their posts?

  what does it mean and how does it work?

  thanks..

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  konceptual99

  If you mean in a post, it's just placing a marker post, like a bookmark, so that they can more easily retrieve a thread in the future by looking at the list of threads they have posted on
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  82

  meeting with elders about WT involvement in UN

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i still go to the meetings because of my in wife and it came about that the elders knew of my pissed off attitude about the society getting involved in the un.

  so the elders said they could help me get over that and wanted to meet with me.

  now just to let you know, i have only told my wife and her mom so far about it, that's it.

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  konceptual99

  Don't forget as well that two elders means they have the required number to state there were at least two witnesses to whatever you say.

  As I said earlier, unless you hoist yourself on your own petard, you are probably safe from direct judicial action this time however things like the UN are just big apostate thinking flags. If you want to maintain a status quo then you need to calm the whole thing down, avoid as much contact as possible with the elders and engineer things so you have no reason to open your mouth.

  Make no mistake, they will use your words against you.
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  77

  Rumor: Discouraging news from GB at upcoming CA?

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is on the reddit frontpage and sounds super weird.

  can it be confirmed in any way by anyone here?.

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4u72dk/what_kind_of_announcement_could_cause_jws_to/.

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  konceptual99

  Given the increasing regularity with which such logistical changes are happening I don't think it's an odd question at all. They are just sending the message to put up and shut up.
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  82

  meeting with elders about WT involvement in UN

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i still go to the meetings because of my in wife and it came about that the elders knew of my pissed off attitude about the society getting involved in the un.

  so the elders said they could help me get over that and wanted to meet with me.

  now just to let you know, i have only told my wife and her mom so far about it, that's it.

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  konceptual99

  I think you are playing with fire and simply raising your apostaprofile with the BoE. They will not be interested in any research you've done other than where you got the material from.

  Unless you completely balls things up or have one of the elders gunning for you then I doubt you'll get yourself into immediate judicial trouble but you're lowering the bar significantly.

  Even if the elders are ignorant about the UN thing, if they mention it to the CO then he won't be and will make sure they have you on the list of ones to keep an eye on.
  

  I would follow a strategy of avoidance and diversion so that they give up trying to meet with you but if you do have a meeting then say as little as possible and maybe change the subject to something like general doubts and confusion over the generation understanding which you are waiting on Jehovah on.