Posts by konceptual99

174

Awake #4/2016: Homosexuality

by Designer Stubble in

the new awake is up on jw.orgwith the legalization of gay marriage in many countries, they decided it was time to show: "what does thebible say about homosexuality?

"does the bible promote prejudice?still, some people would say that the bible promotes prejudice against homosexuals and that those who adhere to itsmoral code are intolerant.

‘the bible was written at a time when people were narrow-minded,’ they claim.

konceptual99

There are two aspects to the problem I can see.

The first is how one interprets homophobia. For some, simply disagreeing with homosexuality (as the Bible does) constitutes homophobia whereas for others the margins are broader. Does disagreeing with Islam make one an Islamaphobe? Does disagreeing with Christianity make one a Chrisianphobe (does that word even exist???)?

You might argue that an individual's sexuality cannot be treated in the same way as something like religion or a political view but then you have to ask what about the view of hetrosexual adultery or fornication. Witnesses disagree with this as well - does their public condemnation of this in itself constitute some kind of phobia or hate speech?

The second aspect is tolerance. It's quite possible to disagree with a religious or political view yet tolerate, respect or even be friends with someone who holds a view different to yours.

Witnesses would argue that they tolerate gay people just as much as they tolerate anyone else outside of their organisation. They would claim that a gay person can become a Witness. They would use that as an argument to suggest they are not homophobic.

The problem is that the club rules do not permit a gay person to lead a fulfilled and open life and be a member of the club. Is this homophobia or yet another case of the balancing act that humanity has to undergo to try and square the circle of free speech, free thought, tolerance, acceptance, equal rights and so on?

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

I bet the instructions and planning for this has been done already and we are seeing it enacted now. I bet there is an Armageddon preparation letter to all congregations easy to go.

Each family shall be assigned to a location of safety, probably with a backup. One or more elders shall be assigned to scout each group location and get a count to ensure all are present and safe. An assumption will be made that no phone communication is possible.

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

Yes and no mille210....

Whilst I can imagine some having a snigger at the cheesyness of it all so many people are desperate to buy into the whole persecution and chaos drama of the big A. Cofty's thread on angst has nailed it.

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

BTW wifibandit and source - thanks very much!

171

RC 2016 Leaks & Releases

by wifibandit in

in an effort to reduce the number of posts, this year i will try to add links to this post.

now, on with the leaks & releases!

first up.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzvwhflss4.

konceptual99

If everyone downsizes to an apartment who is going to have a basement to hide out in?

55

Here's a view on homosexuality for you...

by konceptual99 in

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.

all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.

homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.

konceptual99

I strongly disagree. WT has continued to be compassionate, merciful, understanding, tolerant towards homosexual sinners, never hate or repulsion or rejection -always compassion mercy and understanding for the sinner but not the sin. That is something that I have learned from wt which has made me a better person.

I will concede two points. Firstly, the humanist views presented by Jesus can help engender tolerance, mercy and so on. Assuming those qualities are the preserve of Christians is a different matter of course. Secondly, the WT is generally fairly tame in it's public condemnation of homosexuality and does leave the door open technically for gay people to be accepted in the congregation. The latest Awake article is a case in point.

I will also concede that some Witnesses are about as tolerant as one can be in the constraints of the doctrine. I know I was (as if that's any kind of badge of honour) and I know others with similar viewpoints. This is the exception not the rule.

The reality of what individual Witnesses think on the ground is often far more polarised than the public rhetoric would indicate. Unfortunately not all the content I originally posted has made it through Simon's moderation. I won't try and post the whole thing again but here is a little bit more that is of interest:

If homosexuality is about love, then why can't a homosexual ever feel enough love for someone of the opposite sex? By that same token, is a straight man's love or affection for another man limited because the straight man is NOT attracted sexually to the other man? Does that really make sense? No, it's clear that homosexuality is about attraction, desire, and so forth. It's not about love.

This is a clear refusal to accept that it possible to equate homosexual and hetrosexual relationships. The poster also states "the act itself is against nature and will always be prohibited". There is zero tolerance here. Time and time again I continue to see Witnesses allowing revulsion to homosexuality affect their view of homosexuals in a way that rarely is replicated with hetrosexual immoral acts. In this poster's opinion homosexuality is as unnatural as bestiality and it's very hard to separate the act and the person when conditioned to have a physical revulsion.

55

Here's a view on homosexuality for you...

by konceptual99 in

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.

all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.

homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.

konceptual99

...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality

All you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done. Homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication. Actually, the Bible describes homosexuality as a greater sin than adultery or fornication. The reasoning is that the desire for same-sex intercourse is one "contrary to nature" according to Romans 1:24. At least with heterosexual fornication the wrong doers are acting in harmony with the natural desire for the opposite sex.

I'm sorry to post direct cut'n'paste but I think it's important for people to see the thinking that "mature Christians" continue to have regarding homosexuality. It's probably not news to many but does demonstrate that ones continue to treat homosexuality as different to other sins and how blurred the lines around hating the sin and not the sinner really are.

22

May 2, 2016 Re: Entrance Time at Regional Conventions

by wifibandit in

may 2, 2016 to all congregations in the united states branch territory re: entrance time at regional conventions.

konceptual99

What a shame. On my old stints as an attendant I used to love seeing the lame leaping like deer, the old regaining their youthful vigour, walking sticks being cast aside or used as weapons and young children being sent like mini soldiers to duck and dive their way to the best seats.

It was like the New Order.

15

What would happen if...

by StarTrekAngel in

in an effort to excuse yourself from elder persecution, you present an argument.

whether at a jc or just in an average elder shepherding call.

most people who have confronted a jc, have tried to explain to the elders about what they know of the org but the incriminating questions always come up.. when confronted with the question, do you still believe the gb is the f&ds?

konceptual99

My two penneth...

1) trying to present an argument offering views different to the party line is almost certain to get you DF'ed

2) I would handle the loyalty question this way:

Firstly, just say that's a needless question. Reiterate you just have doubts and that's all. Secondly you can always refer back to a choice part of Jackson's answer to the ARC.

That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.

They will not look it up there and then. Theocratic warfare works both ways.

Having said that, it's still a sticky wicket.

3) the best way of preventing a DFing is to keep your mouth shut as much as possible. Fade away quietly rather than going in a blaze of glory. Don't be controversial. Don't give elders any cause to consider you an apostate threat. Deflect visits.

Ultimately the less you say to elders the better.

234

New ANTI-GAY video for Kids on jw.org

by ttdtt in

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/.

disgusting!.

konceptual99

AS for tolerating celibate JWs, forget it... they're already on record as having said it's unacceptable, citing "that's what some of you WERE" ... 1 Cor. 6:9

If you mean two people living together in a celibate relationship then I would agree this would not be acceptable.

If you mean they don't tolerate single, celibate gay JWs the answer is that they do. Bethel is allegedly full of young men suppressing their natural desires . Quite why anyone who is gay would want to be a Witness is beyond me but no one has to sign a bit of paper when they get baptised to say they no longer have gay thoughts and want to be hetrosexual. In fact the latest Awake makes this clear....

In saying “that is what some of you were,” does the Bible mean that those who stopped engaging in homosexual acts never again experienced any homosexual desires? That could hardly be the case, because the Bible also exhorts: “Keep walking by spirit and you will carry out no fleshly desire.”—Galatians 5:16.
Note that the Bible does not say that a Christian will never experience an improper desire. Rather, it says that he or she will choose not to carry out that desire. Christians learn to bring such desires under control, not dwelling on them to the point of acting on them.—James 1:14, 15. [6]
The Bible thus makes a distinction between inclinations and practices. (Romans 7:16-25) A person who has homosexual leanings can control what he allows his mind to dwell on, just as he would control any other wrong desire, including leanings toward anger, adultery, and greed.—1 Corinthians 9:27; 2 Peter 2:14, 15.