Little update - 100% certain this is the Bristol area. The related saga in this area is the disbanding of the Portishead congregation and the closure of the hall they shared with Clevedon. It's typical local congregation v Bethel politics but is a bone of contention for the locals and has meant a drop in attendance as people vote with their feet and baulk at supporting the org's new arrangements for them.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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Coordinator of Elders Problems in One Southern England Circuit!
by The Searcher ininformation just passed to me.
let's hope this becomes even more widespread.
i wonder if the britain branch suspects a conspiracy?
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WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?
by DarioKehl inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.
hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.
massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..
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konceptual99
As much as it irks me to say this, suggesting there is evidence admissible in court that is being destroyed or that an audit instruction is actually a mass cover up is over egging the pudding.
If the elders were destroying paperwork that they were required to keep by law (e.g. financial information related to records required by the Charities Act) then this would be something that may result in court action.
Take a more pertinent example however - an allegation of child abuse. There are no records that the elders are required to keep by law. What is the evidence that is being destroyed? There may be questions asked about the position & actions of the elder and the organisation but in itself I am not aware that any criminal act would have been committed. What could cause a criminal problem is if an elder lied under oath, perhaps denying an allegation had been made. A criminal investigation could also occur if the authorities thought there was a systematic cover up of known abuse to protect individuals or the organisation. Another potentially criminal act would be for an elder to destroy real evidence of a crime (e.g. some photos). The elders in the UK are not under any mandatory reporting legislation therefore there is nothing they are required to do or keep hold of that would constitute a breach of such legislation were they to fail to act or keep certain documentation.
The fundamental intent of the WTS in it's instructions to UK elders is two fold. Firstly, it is to keep the amount and type of information held about individuals to an absolute minimum, especially where some kind of judicial matter is concerned. They do not want individuals making data access requests, getting hold of the musings and opinions of elders and then using that in a civil case against the congregation.
Secondly they want to keep any data that may be used in a situation such as the Royal Commission to an absolute administrative minimum. So, for example, a "known" child abuser would have sufficient information held to indicate to the authorities a measure of due diligence but not enough that would give an alleged abuser an opportunity to bring some case against the congregation.
The important factor here is the motivation behind what information the elders are asked to keep and how they are asked to store it. They don't want some ill considered comments in a document written by a dunder headed elder coming back to bite them on the arse. There could full well be wider implications should something like a Commission or Tax Enquiry take an interest and this will be in the WTS' minds.
I would love to know what the latest instructions are to the elders on record keeping as it is this that will betray the real methods that the WTS is using to cover it's arse for every eventuality.
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WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?
by DarioKehl inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.
hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.
massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..
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konceptual99
Sorry Freddo - I took about an hour between starting my post and finishing it. You have hit the nail on the head. -
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WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?
by DarioKehl inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.
hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.
massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..
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konceptual99
Once again, this type of instruction has been made to UK BoEs in the past in order to, at least on the surface, ensure compliance with the DPA. There may, of course, be a reason other than purely the passage of time for a written instruction now.
The real story, if indeed there is one, is in the detail of the instructions on what should be recorded and how.
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WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?
by DarioKehl inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.
hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.
massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..
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konceptual99
The issue for the organisation in the UK is that the Data Protection Act brings certain responsibilities to organisations regarding the protection of personal data. It also permits individuals to request data held about them.
As each congregation is a charity then each congregation has responsibilities under the DPA.
The trustees of the charity are the elders and, as such, they have numerous liabilities and responsibilities under charity law and other legislation, such as the DPA. Most elders have no real clue about what it really means for them personally.
For this reason and others, such as a reducing the risk of documentation being used against individual elders, the congregation or the organisation, then the org molly coddles the elders and prescribes, as usual, the detail about what should be recorded and how.
Audits of this documentation happen periodically. Any UK elder, especially if they have been the secretary or COBE/PO, should know this. I've not kept up with the detail of what is kept and how but the info has been discussed via letters and, more commonly, via elder's schools.
As far as I can tell this letter is not triggering some systematic cover-up and mass purge of documentation. It's simply making sure there are clear instructions to all elders to adhere to the existing policies. Rather than getting hung up on the letter, I think it is far more relevant to look behind this at what the instructions are for the recording and storage of information about JCs, child abuse and other congregation matters that may have a wider relevance. It's these policies and instructions that reveal more about the motivation of the WTS as to information gathering and storage.
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WTS checklist for Elders to destroy evidence?
by DarioKehl inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3t1yp7/marc_and_cora_posted_on_utube/.
hot off the presses from exjw reddit earlier today.
massive leak in uk.. if true, this is big (and very, very disturbing)..
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konceptual99
This is not especially new. There are periodic reminders about ensuring the congregation file contents are in line with policies. They are not demanding that all notes from elders meetings and regarding things like child abuse cases are destroyed just that they are in line with the instructions previously provided.
Of course there are questions about the extent and purpose of the notes they do keep but overall this letter is nothing out of the ordinary.
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Review of the November 15 study article - "Stand Firm in the Faith"
by Divergent inthis study article poses questions that we should ask ourselves.
don't have time to analyze the whole thing, so will start from paragraph 8:.
8 do gods promises seem less real to me now than they once did?
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konceptual99
These articles are all geared towards making it seem like the organisation cares about the inactive. Yet, as pointed out, all they do is put the issue onto the inactive person, make it their problem. Not once do they make any concessions that organisational processes may be to blame, constant failed promises and expectations - anything that admits any liability on the part of the organisation.
Pointless trash.
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Too Funny Prank
by berrygerry infrom a redditor - would have died to have been there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/3sukbu/our_congregation_happens_to_have_a_networked/.
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konceptual99
Childish. Immature. Puerile. But I would have loved to have been there. Imagine that happening at a CA or RC... -
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JAMES WOODS is in the hospital (heart related)
by Terry injames woods has been a long time regular on this discussion group in all of its incarnations.. he had some kind of "heart-attack" and has been in dallas' emergency ward for several days.
he also has a blood clot doctors are working to break up.. 972-261-4412 is his cell number.. he was in a talking mood yesterday afternoon.. i bet it wouldn't kill him to get some well-wishes.. james goes back a long way as an ex-jw.
he knows where the bodies are buried :).
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konceptual99
Get well soon James! -
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Never Bring a Knife to a Drone Fight
by LoveUniHateExams inapparently, it's good news, everybody - mohammed emwazi (aka jihadi john) has been targeted by a us drone strike.
the location was in raqqa, syria, a few yards from isis hq, near a clock tower where crucifixions are carried out.
there are conflicting reports, some say he died instantly at 11:40pm yesterday, others say that he was badly injured and taken to a nearby hospital.. from what i've previously read about emwazi, he was apparently terrified of being targeted by drones - yesterday it seems his nightmare was made reality.
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konceptual99
The only reason for bringing up the Irish situation is that it illustrates a situation where continued military intervention was only really stopped when the status quo of violence was trumped by the majority marginalising the extremists.
Of course ISIS is a different problem in many ways but it is backed by an ideology that allows the extremism to breed beyond national borders and loyalties. Military intervention over the past 25 years has not stamped out Islamic extremists. It has not marginalised the thinking of these lunatics. The people to change Islam are Moslems.
Extreme behaviour by "Christian" nations stopped when the West became more secular, less dogmatic and more tolerant. It has taken hundreds of years but the pace of change has increased as less and less people have bought into the prejudices that religious belief allows to be propagated.
islam is along way behind but I only see real change coming as the ideology gets marginalised as more and more people are secularised and educated. Making that happen in the Moslem world is the challenge.