Posts by konceptual99

10

New Congregation Position Soon? ELDERESS?

by 7Starz in

i just listened to most of geoffrey jackson's royal commission testimony and i have to say i really enjoyed the multiple times he had to state he would get back to them and would research their questions.. the royal commission was asking if policy could be changed to have women serve on a committee to decide the case and then that bodies decision be brought to the elders to decide whether to show mercy or to disfellowship and individual.

three times the judge had to ask mr. jackson to answer his question.. it was amazing how jackson could not find a scripture to show his honor that women were prohibited to serve as elders.

he could only support that men are appointed as elders.. hmm... i've never been a member of the governing body with all their years of so called spiritual training, but even i remember deborah the prophetess, when the judge asked jackson if women could serve as a judge.. i was so hoping that the judge or mr. stewart would refer to deborah.

konceptual99

Not sure if you have seen this thread on the same subject....

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/432460001/look-out-new-congregation-position-elders-wives-helper-elders

14

Guys help me out, no isrealite women judges?????since when

by Diogenesister in

guys what the hell is going on, how can jackson say there were no isrealite women judges!!!

!how many jewish women judges are there?cdidnt maclellan check up om that one, would have thought he'd know!

!

konceptual99

I would have liked Jackson to have be asked if there were written instructions to say that corporal punishment was not acceptable and that repeat offenders could face judicial action.

True, the slant is towards more progressive forms of discipline but if a parent wants to smack then they can.

I remember as a child, attending a circuit assembly and one of my friends was on the platform with his dad doing a demonstration. The demo was about "loving" discipline. In the example my friend had done something wrong and lied so the Dad sat down, went through some scriptures and asked if the child understood what he had done wrong etc. etc. and then said "so now we need to go upstairs so I can punish you". True, this was the late 70s but it stuck with me because it was out and out approval for smacking kids ut so long as you read the Bible to them first.

14

Guys help me out, no isrealite women judges?????since when

by Diogenesister in

guys what the hell is going on, how can jackson say there were no isrealite women judges!!!

!how many jewish women judges are there?cdidnt maclellan check up om that one, would have thought he'd know!

!

konceptual99

JWs are against corporal punishment of children in the countries where this is banned, e.g. Norway and other Scandinavian countries... All references to such have been rephrased in WT literature for decades.

Sounds like another case of "Dear secular authority. Thanks for making a law on this so we know what to do as we lack the moral fibre and Christian conscience to come up with something ourselves."

I think there is another similar approach in the anecdotal accounts of a "nudge, nudge" towards the courts to impose child protection orders on kids needing blood transfusions so everyone can walk away with no sanctions.

18

Look out for a new congregation position for elders wives: Helper to the Elders

by Splash in

geoffrey jackson spent 20 minutes accepting the position that it is not scripturally prohibited for women to be used in the investigation process, although probably not the jc itself (he said he'd check the scriptures on that bit, but we can guess the outcome).. look out for the wives of elders jostling for and gaining these positions.

there will be no better opportunity for gossip mongers to raise their status in the congregation than being officially involved in the intimate private business of others in the congregation.. think of the power they will have in advising the elders on a jc if she thinks the victim is credible, with her opinion, bias and embellishments on the details.

i wouldn't fancy the chances of a victim who has previously fallen out with one of these 'helpers'.. whatever next, sisters handling microphones??!

konceptual99

NP Listless,

As you say my last sentence and, I suspect, other similar comments, was based on a certain type of person however this was not clear. Thanks for pointing out the implications of what I said as it was unfair not to highlight the other side of the story.

k99

18

Look out for a new congregation position for elders wives: Helper to the Elders

by Splash in

geoffrey jackson spent 20 minutes accepting the position that it is not scripturally prohibited for women to be used in the investigation process, although probably not the jc itself (he said he'd check the scriptures on that bit, but we can guess the outcome).. look out for the wives of elders jostling for and gaining these positions.

there will be no better opportunity for gossip mongers to raise their status in the congregation than being officially involved in the intimate private business of others in the congregation.. think of the power they will have in advising the elders on a jc if she thinks the victim is credible, with her opinion, bias and embellishments on the details.

i wouldn't fancy the chances of a victim who has previously fallen out with one of these 'helpers'.. whatever next, sisters handling microphones??!

konceptual99

Dear Listless,

Many apologies. I certainly did not mean to imply an disrespect and there are many sincere and genuine women in the congregation and if a victim is going to talk to anyone, being able to talk to one or two of these is about the best case scenario in the circumstances.

Having said that, the congregation is a reflection of life and many of the power plays and negative social interactions that go on everywhere are also manifest in the congregation. On top of that, the very nature of the organisation is one of hierarchy, privilege and the categorisation of individuals purely on outward displays of "faith" and obedience to organisational norms.

In my experience, the most genuine people at the kingdom hall are often at the bottom of the pecking order and not at the top. Allowing oneself to become self righteous by proxy, vicariously bestowing status on oneself through association with elders, missionaries, bethelites etc. is very common. The most spiteful, hateful comments I have heard in my decades as a Witness have come from the mouths of elders wives.

Any move by the organisation to formalise some kind of role for women here does on the face of it allow for a more compassionate approach. I accept that there is a danger of cynicism and even bitterness to overly bias comments and I apologise again for any part I may have played in this. I would still suggest however, that every time there is some opportunity of "service" or privilege extended it simply opens the door further for those with the least genuine motives, male or female, to explore yet another avenue of organisational superiority.

18

Look out for a new congregation position for elders wives: Helper to the Elders

by Splash in

geoffrey jackson spent 20 minutes accepting the position that it is not scripturally prohibited for women to be used in the investigation process, although probably not the jc itself (he said he'd check the scriptures on that bit, but we can guess the outcome).. look out for the wives of elders jostling for and gaining these positions.

there will be no better opportunity for gossip mongers to raise their status in the congregation than being officially involved in the intimate private business of others in the congregation.. think of the power they will have in advising the elders on a jc if she thinks the victim is credible, with her opinion, bias and embellishments on the details.

i wouldn't fancy the chances of a victim who has previously fallen out with one of these 'helpers'.. whatever next, sisters handling microphones??!

konceptual99

Don't get your hopes up that this signals some kind of sea change in the role of females in the organisation. I suspect that any modifications to the process will be only in cases of sexual assault and not some generic improvements that allow sisters to be involved in any case of fact finding.

I would suggest it would be something like:

- letter outlining some scriptural basis for a change that the GB have meditated on and decided to follow to keep JW processes regarding abuse way ahead of what everyone else is doing. Some kind of link to Deborah made. But a limitation made on "judging"

- announcement that anyone who wishes to report an allegation of sexual abuse can choose to talk to a couple of mature sisters

- either these are identified at a local level and publicly known within the congregation or the victim has to approach an elder and say they need to discuss a matter with the uber sisters and the elder assigns a couple of them to the victim

- sisters meet with victim and get victim's story

- report is made to the elders who then decide what to do

- sisters get reminded not to talk about anything to anybody but can't help wandering around with smug faces and making throwaway comments about "something going on but I couldn't possibly talk about it".

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