Cofty, you can pick whichever evil of the O.T. you claim that God advocates, and you would need to be a little clearer as to what gives you that impression, book, chapter, etc. We will do just one, so please pick the one that bothers you the most and you believe to be the clearest contradiction of what Christians claim of God today.
pacloc
JoinedPosts by pacloc
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94
Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option
by cofty init's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.
i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.
it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.
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94
Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option
by cofty init's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.
i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.
it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.
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pacloc
Cofty if we settle even just one of your claims of the O.T. evils that God advocates, would that help you? Or would it do nothing? I'm willing to try to reason on just one the evils of your choice if you think it would be fruitful. I just don't think you really care to see my side, you seem so mean in your writing style. I look on this site and respond only once and a while, and I feel sorry for anyone that is not mature in the faith and could be easily discouraged by your words. Why do you have to be so against God? We've gone in circles about this before, if He is make believe, why the constant attack? You have agreed that most Christians if anything try to live decently because of Him, it is not normal to become a dangerous cult like the JWs from Christianity, it is the exception. -
94
Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option
by cofty init's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.
i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.
it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.
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pacloc
Cofty is not an atheist, he is anti-Christ. Why else would someone constantly attack God? I could understand attacking JWs and other dangerous cults, or even hypocritical Theists, but attacking the very concept of "God" and with such animosity sparked with disgust in his allowance of death and suffering speaks loudly of his anti-God beliefs. You seem to be in the same boat, if you feel obliged to answer before him. -
94
Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option
by cofty init's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.
i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.
it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.
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pacloc
Cofty, you do not understand Christ at all. You have been led by your fear of death to become so angry at God, you will not listen to reason. Death rules you and makes you act irrationally. Christ came to destroy our fear of death. True Christianity teaches that death has no power over us now if you choose to believe. Take away God, and now who will you blame for death? If God is not real, you have told me your all-wise reason for death, that "sh** happens". You need God to fuel your reason for existence, to hate Him and try to make others hate Him. Until you realize what it is that true Christianity teaches, not what you say that it is, you will never listen to anything I or others will have to say. In the events of the O.T. God was teaching us lessons, and likewise in the N.T. and all through time. If you refuse to learn the lesson while others do, you are the one that is lacking wisdom. Keep shaking your fist to the sky and groan that in time you will be no more. Others have learned that in the world that we have made sick by our choices, it is truly the greatest thing to offer your life for the sake of others, no longer fearing death, but welcoming it, if it could mean that those left will learn the lesson and pass on the destruction of the fear of death and lesson of self-sacrificing love. -
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I was "totally" stopped in my tracks by an "atheist" comment.
by booker-t ini must admit i can at times be a little "egotistical" when it comes to knowledge and the bible.
i have studied the bible for so long and have always had a passion for the bible as a jw and as an ex-jw.
i guess that is all i have left when it comes to religion and as humans we do tend to stroke our egos.
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pacloc
I think the Church has said that the "World" that was destroyed by flood is most likely the part of Earth that had man living on it. And as for the animals part, while still possibly being literal would represent something more significant than the actual act, a cleansing and saving work, so each literal animal would not be necessary. The meaning behind the event is what is to be learned, not the actual event. The Earth was made for man, so when man is living in such a bad way, the Earth is destroyed. But to show God's mercy, he provides escape for the righteous.
As for calling God cruel for killing babies, you must think out the argument further. What do you think caused the Flood? What do you think causes parents to kill their children today? What do you think causes diseases? What do you think causes us to grow old and die? Is it really sad that children die, is it not just as sad that anyone dies? Mankind sinning is what causes death, because to follow God is to live and never die. Do you think that those babies are doomed to annihilation? You have been reading too much JW literature. This life that has continued from the original sin is a lesson to be learned, not the final state. That is why Christians can be comforted when things do not always go right, because they know the big picture. Athiests are so mad at their vision of God, that they want everyone to feel their pain and misery that they won't allow you to believe in true justice. They would rather live by the phrase $h1t happens as I was told. The simple answer for why God flooded the world, wanted sinners to be stoned, turned Lot's Wife to salt, destroyed whole cities was To Teach Valuable Lessons for the whole human race. That does not mean that the people that were made an example of are doomed to annihilation or Hell, we do not know hearts, only God does. The point is that Sin causes death, and to learn this lesson we needed evidence. We have had so much evidence by now that God has deemed it time to send his Son 2000 years ago and to relax the physical destructions to prove points. Yet some people never learn.
Mean old God, that's an easy way out of responsibility.
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156
When we die...
by Finallyfree12 indo you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?
?.
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pacloc
what about the children that are born suffering and die with illnesses? Or children born to starve to death?
As an ethical and logical problem that is for theists to answer. As a human problem it will only be solved by human effort.
This is what was posted by you. It was not very clear that you did not include death in your sentence about human effort solving human problems. I most definitely have not been twisting anyone's words.
You say so many untruths and claims that are pure opinions so boldly. You know that God was created because of fear of death? Really. Do people really take you seriously on this forum? Christians are willing to die as martyrs because they have no fear of death. It is the godless that try to find god at their deathbed.
and jgnat, your definition of Christian is not the same as how I am using the term. I speak of true Christians. Anyone can claim Christ, but they are not really Christian. So I can say we Christians about the things I have spoken about. If you call yourself Christian and think that justice died at the Cross, and that God does sinful things you are a confused searcher for Christ, not really an example of what a Christian is. As for Islam, as Christians we obviously treat their teachings that go beyond Christianity as heresy, so their view of justice is imperfect. Christianity, to Christians is not just some religion, it is the only true religion. So have people claiming Christianity done horrible things? Yes, but that was sin, not Christianity that was done. And yes this hurts the label of Christianity horribly, and that is why we are supposed to be careful to not make God look bad by our sins.
Anyway I feel I am not getting anywhere with anyone on this thread, so I don't know how much more time I should use responding. Unless any of you are serious about discussing some of these things, I think I will stop responding.
Thanks for the time, God bless you all.
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156
When we die...
by Finallyfree12 indo you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?
?.
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pacloc
I believe that I have ETERNAL LIFE now ...
Now that is more of what I am talking about. It takes a while for us to realize this concept though. I know it took me a few years to explain it so simply. Now having eternal life, and looking forward to the resurrection are not exactly the same thing, the resurrection is the high point of eternal life in that all the saints will be complete. We still have the Kingdom of God in strong real way right now, but the Kingdom of God will be greater once all things are holy.
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156
When we die...
by Finallyfree12 indo you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?
?.
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pacloc
If you don't want Christians to sit on their hands, then why did you think it was "crazy" for humans to work on the problems of disease and death? Isn't it a waste of time?
I did not say it was crazy to try to work on problems of disease and death, nor did I say it was a waste of time. You are mixing Jdub reasoning again. I said it is crazy to think that we will rid the Earth of disease and death, and I was more emphasizing death. I know that we have made great advances in treating disease and I think that is a beautiful thing, I'm speaking generally that I do not believe we will ever get rid of all disease, but most surely not death, which to a Christian is really just a terrible disease.
There is so much anger toward God and people that still believe in God after leaving the Cult. Why can't you realize that true Christians are beautiful people too. Just because you have proven to yourself you do not believe in God anymore, you must treat others that do as ignorant? I really hope you guys talking have PHDs or something. I'm not ignorant as far as the world goes either, I have a bachelors in Civil Engineering and am a Professional Engineer. I rely on science for my livlihood.
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156
When we die...
by Finallyfree12 indo you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?
?.
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pacloc
Researchers are working on those. They've been working on them for some time now and are closer to solutions, as seen by the number of cancer treatments available today, and the knowledge of the precise genetic errors that lead to certain conditions like Down's syndrome. Meanwhile, a bunch of theists are sitting on their hands waiting for God to fix things. Is that really morally okay in your eyes? To just do nothing? How do you know when the end is coming or how much suffering can be avoided before then by scientific advancements?
Sitting on their hands? You are thinking of Jdubs, who are not Christian. Hospitals, Universities, and advances in science were started by the Church. Once again an atheist that cannot understand the word "and." You either do something practical, or only leave it up to God, Heaven forbid you do both.
End coming? Jdub thinking again. Please everyone, get educated in real Christianity before you attack it like this. We do not teach that you avoid responsibilities hoping the end will come next year. We might as well plan for the world to be around a few more thousand years, we don't know.
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156
When we die...
by Finallyfree12 indo you beleive our spirit lives on in other dimensions or are we really just dead?
?.
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pacloc
pacloc, does belief in God equal belief in justice, and the converse, no belief in God, no justice? How so?
In a single sentence, yes belief in God equals belief in justice and no belief in God equals no justice. This is in a perfect world though, which we are not in, so it gets a lot more complicated than that simple sentence. As Christians, we have no right or way of knowing someone's relationship with God. We only can speak of the "Standard" that God has given us through the law, prophets, and perfectly in Jesus. So if we develop a justice system that goes with God's justice system, yet are unsure of God's existence, I'm sure that a lot of that will be worked out at death. As Catholics, we are to hope that all mankind will be saved, we just try to teach that a surer way to reach Heaven is to follow as closely as possible the example of Christ and learn of the method of how God has saved us. So partial truth is better than nothing, but it too can get worse and lead to greater injustice. The reasons for conflict usually stem from pride and ignorance, which are both opposites of God, who is humble and pure truth/wisdom. So the more we try to immitate God, the less prideful and ignorant we should become, creating peace. But if it is up to each one of us to have our own system of justice, we will eventually fight till one prevails.