religion is for people who are scared to go to hell.
spirituality is for people who have already been there.
- bonnie raitt .
I think religion, especially JW since that's the only one I've been a part of, tries to use religious practices and regulations to measure spirituality. But spirituality cant be measured, its deeply personal.
Trying to use religion to measure spirtuality is like trying to measure air pressure with a tape measure.
...and granted me strength, friends, a job, whatever...was all either through my own effort alone or sheer luck.. i wanted a government job so i prayed for one and went out looking for one every day for ages and made a heap of applications...and got one.
my own effort.. i wanted a friend and prayed for one, crying myself to sleep with loneliness.....and after 6 months in the new congregation someone reached out to me.
chance.. i prayed to be able to stand up to my family when they put pressure on me about christmas etc...my own cult conditioning so strong.. i prayed to find a nice husband...luck when i moved congregations and one of those sisters who just has to match make introduced us.
Mealtime prayers, "thank you heavenly father for providing this food...." Used to bother me, because everyone else (non jws) were eating too. So if he's providing for them too, what makes us so special. Guess you can give credit wherever you choose to. You can see what you want, doesn't make it so.
GB : "see, only goats are willing to go out on a limb. Just do what we say and be sheep"
Happy birthday!!! Why do I still feel guilty saying that, geez.
i feel like i'm awkard in social situations.
i hate going up and talking to people i don't know.
i have trouble making friends.
This topic resonates with me on a deeply personal level. I feel awkward socially, although I fake it well. Perhaps being a JW is to blame or perhaps just the family environment I was in. As I type this, and every other post I make, I'm terrified of rejection. Many of my comments are qualified with statements of "I hope this doesn't offend anyone" or "I hope this isn't off topic or out of line". Every interaction is governed with this obsessive concern. I see it clearly when reflecting on my 30+ years as a JW, I was so fearful of going against the grain. I worried about what I said, what I wore, what I thought, where I was seen, who I was seen speaking to, what I liked, what I believed. I've now been out for 5+ years and things have changed very little. Even though I now have freedom to be me, I find it difficult to not be overly concerned with what people may think of me, even complete strangers. This has definitely affected my ability to interact freely with others and to make new acquaintances wknd friends. When I do make a friend, I am fiercely loyal and protective of that relationship. As an example, I so admire people who can get up and sing karaoke, I so badly want to, but find myself paralyzed with fear, even though I've delivered over a 100 public talks and assembly and district convention parts. I've done it a few times but on those occasions I was very drunk and the liquid courage was abundant. Is this because of being a JW, I don't know, but I just can't stand it. I call it the "don't give a shit" gene and figure I just didn't get it. This only scrapes the surface of the social retardation I feel and deal with daily. The practice of hiding who you really are and how you really feel is so unhealthy. I'm proud to say that I go out of my way to teach my kids to embrace who they are and not to hide it. I encourage them to not say or do anything that they would be ashamed of. If they do, I encourage them to analyze why they are ashamed and to try to help them not be enslaved to the world if political correctness as I have been. Our communication is outstanding and I hope they can have a solid sense of self-worth throughout their lives. For me, I feel it may be too late, I an what I am.
based on your experience of judicial committees, how would you advise someone who is due to meet with the elders and has asked for the best way to avoid being disfellowshipped?
is denying everything ever a successful strategy?
does addressing a letter to the elders threatening legal action if they disfellowship ever work?
The repentance route is the safest and easiest to fake. This, in most cases, is what elders are hoping to find. The other two routes are a roll of the dice and depend heavily upon whether they have witnesses and/or the elders involved and how ballsy they are. Even if only one witness, they can move for df and force the person to choose whether to appeal or not. Then the appeal committee's bravery comes in to play. At that point a threat of legal action, if only one witness, could be effective.
i know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.
but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.
alleged " faithful slave " .
I agree with ctrwtf, they get around the sister thing by referring to a scripture that says there is neither male nor female in the kingdom of the heavens. Thus they boil it down to the person, and yet there is no soul that survives death?!?!
autobiography.
forever began at the day of my birth, but, it turns out that it was a lie,.
i am who i am when nobody's watching, then nothing is there to deny.. .
It wasn't by choice at the time that I left
My faith was taken as if by theft
An ambitious brother pursued my and took my peace
This led to my activity to pretty much cease.
The longer I was away the less I wanted to go
I began to question things, things i needed to know.
I started researching, I took to the bible to read
Slowly I saw real truth, I had planted a seed.
My eyes have opened and they can never be shut
Now I'm happy without an if, and or but.
I hope others can come to find what I have found
And break free from the falsehoods to which they are bound
once baptised, apart from death there are really just two ways to leave the congregation: df or da.. but notice this quote:.
"does he really desire to disassociate himself, or does he simply no longer want to associate actively with the congregation?".
- shepherd the flock of god (2010) p. 111. .
Making known a firm decision to be known no longer as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
If the individual is agreeable, the committee should first try to speak with him and provide spiritual assistance.
It is also of note that this is in a committee setting. Therefore I suspect this is a scenario where a person actually approaches the elders and states they don't want to be a jw any longer. The elders are then to form a committe and ascertain if its for one of the two reasons above. A committee can't or at least shouldn't be formed just because someone is going in active. Only if they have taken the next step and vocalized a desire not to be a jw. If in fact they then, during the hearing, say they are discouraged or depressed and just want to be left alone but don't voice a rejection of the organization, they would or should not be labeled apostate or as DA. I believe Splash is correct in this assessment.
this is my opinion, i don't have official quotes or official instructions to back this up.
what i have is real life experience of having been an elder that was involved in investigating an allegation of child abuse, why we didn't report, why we didn't encourage the parents to report.. its simple really, the main reason elders don't report is concern that they may lose their position in the congregation.
if you in any way "run ahead" of the society, you will be perceived as proud and arrogant and will be deleted!
I want to clarify, I wasn't and aren't anything special. I was completely caught up in the politics as much as anyone. I did and do have a heart though.
Sadly,I valued my privileges of highest esteem. I placed them at a higher value than my own wife and kids. I figured this was my career, I had very little materially and worked fast food or janitorial, whatever allowed me flexibility and more time for advancing my career. My wife was initially on board, up until we had children, then her priorities rightly changed, mine sadly did not. It wasn't until I lost these privileges that I recognized that my motives were impure. When I lost it all, I didn't find peace and happiness in serving as I could or having mire time with my family, I was bitter. Only since being dfd have I learned proper priorities and gained real satisfaction in life and in my family. For that I'm grateful to jws. I'm eternally grateful for my wife and her patience and wisdom. I wish more career elders would realize their lack of perspective, but sadly they won't until going down the same path. You're brought up to never say no, accept every privilege. Then they betray you.
