A question for elders and former elders who have served on JCs

by slimboyfat 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  slimboyfat

  Based on your experience of judicial committees, how would you advise someone who is due to meet with the elders and has asked for the best way to avoid being disfellowshipped?

  Is denying everything ever a successful strategy?

  Does addressing a letter to the elders threatening legal action if they disfellowship ever work?

  Or is feigning complete and utter repentance the only game in town if you really want to avoid being disfellowshipped above all else?

  I guess a lot depends on specific circumstances, but feel free to go into those too and what will work in different situations.

  Any other tips or insights you can think of gratefully received.
• 

  passwordprotected

  It depends on the person and elders handling the JC. More importantly, though, it depends on what the JC has been called for.

  The #1 thing they're looking for is repentance, and that can be "proven" through a variety of ways.

  If the charge is apostasy, the #1 thing they're looking for is prove that the person believes the WTBTS is Jehovah's one true organisation on earth and that the person believes that the FDS is being used by Jehovah on earth.

  Get the person the Flock book so that they can review the sections on how to handle JCs. This will equip them with exactly what the elders will be looking for.
• 

  passwordprotected

  I should add, the one and only JC I was on was for pre-marital sex.

  The young guy involved wasn't showing any repentance, in fact he was very straight faced and almost sullen. However, bear in mind that one of the elders on the committee with me had interrogated his wife as to what they'd done sexually together, how her then boyfriend (now husband) had touched her and whether she'd enjoyed it.

  What the fuck? They'd already admitted "wrongdoing".

  So it was understandable that the young guy probably wanted to rip our throats out for reducing his wife to a sobbing wreck, the arseholes that we were.

  Once she'd left the room I pointed out to the guy that we were looking for repentance and that he'd need to help us out as he wasn't really showing us any.

  What a dick I was.
• 

  jeremiah18:5-10

  The repentance route is the safest and easiest to fake. This, in most cases, is what elders are hoping to find. The other two routes are a roll of the dice and depend heavily upon whether they have witnesses and/or the elders involved and how ballsy they are. Even if only one witness, they can move for df and force the person to choose whether to appeal or not. Then the appeal committee's bravery comes in to play. At that point a threat of legal action, if only one witness, could be effective.
• 

  tim hooper

  Our PO used to wonder if true repentance was being shown if the offence had been discovered as opposed to being confessed to voluntarily.

  Then the question was, "Is the person repentant for their sin or are they just sorry that they've been found out?"
• 

  slimboyfat

  password did you disfellowship them or not?
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  If a person chooses to involve themselves in the process, after a perfunctory prayer the judicial trio will begin with a statement of why the meeting is convened. Next they should extend an invitation to the accused to make a statement.

  Recommendation 1: When prompted to make an opening statement, decline to do so at that time. Ask that whatever evidence there is to be presented, and afterward you’ll make any statement you deem necessary.

  The hearing should then move immediately to whatever evidence is available. Usually this is in the form of verbal testimony. Sometimes it will include written documentation like letters, invoices or something else. Sometimes it will include recorded documentation in the form of audio or video.

  If testimony is offered the accused should be ready to ask lots and lots of questions to test its veracity. My blog contains samples of what I’m talking about. (Judicial Committee Preparation available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/03/judicial-committee-preparation.html . The documents shown can be downloaded as image files by 1) right-clicking on the images 2) left-clicking on the images once open to enlarge them and then 3) right-clicking and saving the image files to your hard drive for use in whatever application you choose.)

  Ultimately the accused should put themselves in the best position to defend themselves from false accusations and/or bad evidence. The only person in the room with the accused individual’s personal best interest as top priority is the accused.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  sir82

  all this is based on my experience of course....

  Is denying everything ever a successful strategy?

  In virtually all the cases I served on, the person confessed. So there would have been no purpose to denials afterward.

  In the case there is no confession, there has to be 2 or more witnesses. If there are those witnesses, their testimony would likely supersede any denials of the accused.

  So no, denials would virtually never work, and would probably lead to a swift DF.

  Does addressing a letter to the elders threatening legal action if they disfellowship ever work?

  I have no experience with this, but I've read on this site that such a letter prompts immediate reaction from the WTS, and based on the experiences recounted here, it seems likely that the elders would back down.

  That may depend on circumstances, though. For example, I suppose it would be more likely that they would back down if the accused had not been associated with the JWs for a long time and thus their relationship with JWs was more tenuous.

  Or is feigning complete and utter repentance the only game in town if you really want to avoid being disfellowshipped above all else?

  In my experience, if you want to avoid DF, this is the best bet.

  The best way to feign repentance is to go on and on and ON and ON about your "damaged relationship with Jehovah" and how you have "brought reproach on his name" and how you have sullied his reputation, and oh how much you want to repair your relationship with Jehovah, etc. etc. etc.

  Work "my relationship with Jehovah" into your comments a dozen or so times, and you should be OK.

  Any other tips or insights you can think of gratefully received.

  They say that "there is no such thing as an automatic disfellowshipping" but there really is.

  Here are some things that will lead to DF 99.9% of the time:

  -- If you have repeated a "sin" numerous times, received counsel, weren't DF'ed before, but have done it again

  -- If you have committed a "notorious" crime that brings the notice of the media to your case and/or embarrasses the WTS

  -- If you have committed your "sins" over a long period of time (e.g. having an affair stretching over several years)

  -- Lying to the judicial committee then getting caught in the lie

  -- Active "apostasy"
• 

  confusedandalone

  On a page in the Shepherding book it states that elders are to look for repentance. It also says that sometimes a persons REPETANCE WILL BE SHOWN FOR THE FIRST TIME DURING THE MEETING - in not so many words. That portion stands out in the minds of elders. So utilize it to your advantage.

  When the meeting starts and your wrong is addressed they will give you a chance to respond - say something like this

  "Brothers, I have to admit that up until a few days ago I really did not feel that I was obligated to confess anything to anyone. My heart was cold and I had no desire to truly REPENT. While lying in my bed getting ready to go to sleep it dawned on my that I had not prayed to Jehovah in a heartfelt manner in weeks. I tried to pray but I had no idea what to say. I felt lost and alone. I cried for hours trying to figure out what to do. I FELT LIKE DAVID, broken at heart over my wrongs for the first time. I FELT I HIT ROCK-BOTTOM. I started pouring out my heart to jehovah there on the floor. I had no idea how much time had passed, but in this time I truly felt like I had come clean to Jehovah about my wrong and understood what it meant to truly REPENT.

  I didn't sleep the rest of the night. I spent time writing out my apology to Jehovah on paper so that whenever I had the feeling that I would throw my relationship with Jehovah to the side I could look at this letter and be reminded how good I felt that night when I realized that my relationship with Jehovah is the most important thing in my life...

  (PAUSE as you wipe dry tears from your eyes) - I have it here...(write the bogus letter and drop some water in a few key spots and say, "Please excuse the areas with wet spots.. they are from tears) I would like you to read it. Give the letter to the most dog-hearted individual on the JC.

  They will read it. Afterward tell them, "Brothers I know full well what I did was wrong... I can't take it back. If I get the chance to remain a part of Jehovah's family I will never allow myself to so easily throw that relationship away again. I know you brothers have to do what is best for the congregation - but rest assured that no matter what I will be here...

  ************************

  Constantly using the word repent as well as showing that you have gone to Jehovah in prayer and repented of your sins there is literally no scriptural way they can disfellowship you. If you somehow would get DF'ed which I douobt you would - you have 7 days to get the decision repelled. There is no JC that would be able to justify disfellowshipping you
• 

  passwordprotected

  They were given a private reproof, IIRC.