Posts by TheWonderofYou

3

New Testament Manuscript Study Papyrus Images and NA 28 Online

by TheWonderofYou in

interested in online resources for new testament?

nt and od is the antique book with.

the most documentated available manuscripts.

TheWonderofYou

Crazyguy, thanks for commenting.

Fine point about el and elohim. I had to check up that. I found out something.

- El was the god of the fathers, Abraham, Isaak and Jacob (not JHWH)
- The El-religion was adopted by Israel in the special version of Elohim.[=Plural: sense: "Everything Divine is He"] in the continuation of the fathers religion and by emphazising the uniqueness of this El.

El-religion was a God the image of God as a social and personal one. The fathers of Israel had already decided for
a god which whom they "had a personal relationship". El was no God of special place or city, of a mystic tree or source, of a natural might,
El was seen on the level of Me and you. Thus this image became basis of the Israel faith. El was seen as holder of a disctinct personality, as father, as creator of the creatures, as the wise and king, as highest god, as hightest might, who was about everything else. This thought again is bases in the Isreal religion. El was not king in the meaning of Baal. (see below)

Excluded by the fathers were :

- conceptions of god as "Baal = Lord and Melech, moloch=king,( aristocratical god of limitless despoty and not image of social god)
- conceoption of god as local god and resulting fertility-beliefs

Thus the El-concept became basis of Isral and christianity.
The fathers only took up a certain name or concept of God in their time.

So much to translate from german into english.

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

TheWonderofYou

Very interesting thoughts, let me go check up.

TWOY

35

Watchtower Really Does Totally Take The Position of Jesus

by OnTheWayOut in

watchtower has said that jesus is not the mediator of anyone but for the anointed.

then they tell you that they are jehovah's organization and that the flock should obey them.. basically, the watchtower corp. and it's governing body is taking the place of jesus as the mediator for people.

christianity, even by it's name, focuses on making jesus known.

TheWonderofYou

Hello, a great point, often such thoughts arise, but mostly I forget such items to fast before writing down.

Is the truth understood as a sum of all dogmas or is it understood as a "way of the truth"?

I cite from a booklet of catolic church: "The first christians called the new way of living: the new way, the way of god,

the way of the lord, the way of the faith, the way of salvation, the new and vivid /lively way! For Jesus said of himself: I am the way."

The term way of truth thus maybe a term invented or stressed by JW, but it depends always with what ideas the term is filled out.

Two matters i want to study further:

what is a mediator? (direct contact to god / or via mediators)

Because the church says if Jesus was a mediator in the sense of a merely perfect man he could not save us at all,
he could not be the real truth,
he could not forgive our sins, cause God alone is able to save us, to forgive sins.

Thus derives the dogma that Jesus was God and only thereby he was able to be a mediator,
otherwise we would have never direct contact to god if we pray to Jesus,
we always needed a human mediator, a priest or an organisation to contact God.

This mediator subject is associated with the subject trinity and others.
Short: truth is only God, and as jesus is the real mediator, we go on the secure way together with Jesus.
But his gift is his presence and he helps us to find the right way of truth.
He is present in our life, he is not merely "unvisible presence" but "real together walking".

Greetings
TWOY

11

Animal sacrifices! This weeks bible reading

by stuckinarut2 in

of what relevance is a written biblical record about how animals were killed, dissected, burned, etc?.

why splash blood on the ears of a priest etc?.

why oh why does the god of exodus like having animals killed, just so he can have some smoke smell rise to heaven?.

TheWonderofYou

BTW as my TWOY-bible analyzer explains ;-)

animal sacrifices were like all sacrifices in all religions a human approach to God,

an cultic attempt to reconcile an angry god.

Thus the christian religion was the total turnaround of all jewish tradition,

God was trough Jesus the one who moved away all sacrificies

this divine word meant: I am merciful but not merely merciful, as I would be to a get-lost son,

i love you and I advocate for you until the bitter end.

(But way were sacrificies then in the Thora, in the divine law at all? hmmm)

Greetings
TWOY

11

Animal sacrifices! This weeks bible reading

by stuckinarut2 in

of what relevance is a written biblical record about how animals were killed, dissected, burned, etc?.

why splash blood on the ears of a priest etc?.

why oh why does the god of exodus like having animals killed, just so he can have some smoke smell rise to heaven?.

TheWonderofYou

But you succeeded in overcoming this weeks bible reading, what a luck.

28

New Arrangement for Donations: What should it be called?

by Da.Furious in

following from a post by neverendingjourney.

we should come up with a new name for this arrangement.

feel free to post your ideas!.

TheWonderofYou

Somesins Luxury Tablet 3

JW.aaargh's Lot

Holey Offering Box

3

Fundamentalist bible approach

by TheWonderofYou in

go to item f to read about the fundamentalist bible approach and its consequences.

http://www.deiverbum2005.org/interpretation/interpretation_e.pdf.

sincerely.

TheWonderofYou

Go to Item F to read about the fundamentalist bible approach and its consequences

http://www.deiverbum2005.org/Interpretation/interpretation_e.pdf

Sincerely
TWOY

23

THE PROBLEM with reading the Bible literally is . . . you can't think too hard

by Terry in

i want to begin with a quotation by stephen colbert: "we're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth the truth we want to exist" - stephen colbert on the origin of the word "truthiness.".

moses brought 10 plagues upon egypt to change pharoah's mind about letting jehovah's people go.. the 5th plague is to destroy only the egyptian livestock:.

6 and the next day the lord did it: all the livestock of the egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the israelites died.. a few days later the 7th plague is described:.

TheWonderofYou

Me too, i sometimes like to understand a Bibel phrase literally, it is a kind of romanticism, an emotional appeal of a phrase,
but I always think about the context.

Perhaps those people did never read a scientific explanation

- about what is "modern and correct interpretation"

- about responsible methods of literary analysis that is done by our scholars worldwide.

- about all the rethorical, narrativ, semiotic, canonical, jewish tradiional, historical influence, sociological, cultural , psychological, liberationist, feminist approaches. (Thousands of researchers are acutally working on all these subjects doing an interesting job)

- about the difference between a responsible "literal" and not merely a naively literalist interpretation".

Perhaps we can help them if they read the appended document.

"The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church" presented by the Pontifical Biblical Commission

Under item F. you find fundamentalism.

http://www.deiverbum2005.org/Interpretation/interpretation_e.pdf

Excpert "F. Fundamentalist Interpretation
Fundamentalist interpretation starts from the principle that the Bible, being the Word of God, inspired and
free from error, should be read and interpreted literally in all its details. But by "literal interpretation" it
understands a naively literalist interpretation, one, that...."

Greetings

TWOY

28

New Arrangement for Donations: What should it be called?

by Da.Furious in

following from a post by neverendingjourney.

we should come up with a new name for this arrangement.

feel free to post your ideas!.

TheWonderofYou

I did not follow all postings about this fund raising for the future world and beautiful kingdom hall all over the world.

I read that the permanent flow of money has to be garantueed and this would be stabilization of income.

What for? As an security to get some loan or bond, i dont know.

But if it so then which bank is the beneficary the usufrucuturay of that permanent flowing income?

I would like to know this Bank that gives this BORG the live insurance for all things.

Let us make a photo of this bank house and let us speak with them and confront them with the reality.

LOL

untitled

by TheWonderofYou in

must-read: bible-translation was a hard work already in the 4th century!

correspondence of augustine (bishop of hippo) and jerome (a very famous scholar in scriptural study) concerning the latin translation of the bible by jerome (vulgate" =commonly used translation) 394 a.d. (jerome had previously translated from the septuagint, but after 390 he began to translate direct from the hebrew )for my part, i would much rather that you would furnish us with a translation of the greek version of the canonical scriptures known as the work of the seventy translators.

for if your translation begins to be more generally read in many churches, it will be a grievous thing that, in the reading of scripture, differences must arise between the latin churches and the greek churches, especially seeing that the discrepancy is easily condemned in a latin version by the production of the original in greek, which is a language very widely known; whereas, if any one has been disturbed by the occurrence of something to which he was not accustomed in the translation taken from the hebrew, and alleges that the new translation is wrong, it will be found difficult, if not impossible, to get at the hebrew documents by which the version to which exception is taken may be defended.

TheWonderofYou

Must-Read: Bible-Translation was a hard work already in the 4 th century!

Correspondence of Augustine (bishop of Hippo) and Jerome (a very famous scholar in scriptural study) concerning the Latin Translation of the Bible by Jerome (“Vulgate" =commonly used translation”) 394 A.D. (Jerome had previously translated from the Septuagint, but after 390 he began to translate direct from the Hebrew )

“ For my part, I would much rather that you would furnish us with a translation of the Greek version of the canonical Scriptures known as the work of the Seventy translators. For if your translation begins to be more generally read in many churches, it will be a grievous thing that, in the reading of Scripture, differences must arise between the Latin Churches and the Greek Churches, especially seeing that the discrepancy is easily condemned in a Latin version by the production of the original in Greek, which is a language very widely known; whereas, if any one has been disturbed by the occurrence of something to which he was not accustomed in the translation taken from the Hebrew, and alleges that the new translation is wrong, it will be found difficult, if not impossible, to get at the Hebrew documents by which the version to which exception is taken may be defended. And when they are obtained, who will submit, to have so many Latin and Greek authorities pronounced to be in the wrong? Besides all this, Jews, if consulted as to the meaning of the Hebrew text, may give a different opinion from yours: in which case it will seem as if your presence were indispensable, as being the only one who could refute their view; and it would be a miracle if one could be found capable of acting as arbiter between you and them.” [Seventy translators = Septuaginta]

Excert from …... more http://www.bible-researcher.com/vulgate2.html

Here a view into this old bibletranslation of the old testament into latin online with English Translation

Latin – english http://vulgate.org/

About Jerome:

http://vulgate.org/jerome/index.htm " when he spoke, they were all thought to be dumb"