Posts by leaving

21

FDS & G.B. TEACHING DESTROYED

by The Searcher in

credit to vidqun for the direction given.. the watchtower november 15th qfr http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20141115/ blows the selection process/timing/individuals clean out of the water!.

simply put, ask any witness these questions:.

who is represented by the 'two witnesses' in revelation chapter 7?

leaving_quietly

I agree that the WTBTS explanation here makes no sense. Timing is off all around. The "two witnesses" were given authority to prophecy for 1,260 days, or 42 months. If that was from the beginning of the last days (October 2, 1914), that would come to an end on March 15, 1918. However, WTBTS doesn't count this way. They count backward from the time of imprisonment. Thus, the Daniel's Prophecy book on page 296 paragraph 18 says:

"The prophecy is quite explicit as to when the 1,260 days would end—when there is “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces.” In the middle of 1918, leading members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, including its president, J. F. Rutherford, were convicted on false charges, sentenced to long terms of confinement, and imprisoned. God’s holy ones did indeed see their work ‘dashed to pieces,’ their power broken. Counting back three and a half years from mid-1918 brings us to the end of 1914.

Is this so? According to page 143, paragraph 31 of the same book, we find this:

Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.

So, let's count backward 1,260 days from June 21, 1918. Does it result in "the end of 1914?" Not at all! It brings us to January 8, 1915. Another lie.

60

How Do You Answer Someone Who Says JWs Are Not False Prophets?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it used to bother me that people would say that about my well meaning religion.

how do you prove that witnesses are indeed, false prophets?.

leaving_quietly

This is one of those threads that could benefit from a Like or Favorites button. But, since that doesn't exist:

LQMARKED

40

Revelation, its Grand Climax.... remember when?

by wallsofjericho in

i remember being at the assembly in 1988?

when this was released.

everyone was so excited that we finally had a simple explanation of revelation with pictures.

leaving_quietly

1988 actually.

Yes, this book has ridiculous explanations. Funny thing... it's still considered (by the org) as an authority on the book of Revelation. Many references in the index point to this book as the latest teaching.

That said, have you ever looked at other explanations of Revelation by other religions or groups? Almost as ridiculous. Some, even more so.

2

Is this talk given by Samuel Herd

by Jay Elle in

i know this particular video has humor added in, but there is an audio with just the talk.

is it really samuel herd?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6bn0rcjzc.

leaving_quietly

Yes, it's him. This is a very old talk. It was discussed on this board a few months back. He gave it sometime in the 70s, I believe.

34

OMG: WT legislating about fragances and common sense

by pixel in

do they have to tell the r&f every little detail???.

from the new wt:.

what can be done to assist brothers and sisters who suffer from adverse reactions to fragrances?any who are sensitive to fragrances face a difficult challenge.

leaving_quietly

It IS incredible that they have to publish this. However, in defense of all those that have an allergy to fragrances, the rest of the R&F seriously lack common sense. Oh, wait... no, I'm wrong. They lack LOVE. Because they know EXACTLY who in their congregations have issues, but they selfishly wear those fragrances anyway.

Yes, I'm defending those who have an allergy because I personallly know several like that who are very sweet and don't make a big deal about it, but you know when they are suffering.

28

Best scriptures for countering TOMO III's comment about "inactive ones"??

by DATA-DOG in

what do you say, bible gurus???

a relative asked me what i thought of the zone visit.

i am in the process of gathering my thoughts.

leaving_quietly

2 Peter 1:8 is the only place where the word "inactive" is used in the NWT.

For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word for "inactive" is argous (Strong's 692) which means "idle, lazy, thoughtless". It can mean inactive or even ineffective as some translations say.

Again, though, what is the context? What "things" does this verse refer to? Going back to verse 5:

For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love.

Faith, virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, godly devotion, brotherly affection, love. Nothing about the preaching work. In addition, what does "brotherly affection" have to do with preaching to strangers? Nothing.

Also, 2 Peter doesn't talk about preaching at all. He mentions Noah, "a preacher of righteousness", but as far as preaching or declaring anything, this particular letter is silent. Thus, contextually, being "inactive" doesn't have anything to do with preaching.

8

Nethinim - (Barb Anderson please comment if you can!) :)

by wallsofjericho in

*** w06 2/15 p. 28 par.

11 walking in the path of increasing light ***.

the year 1992 saw still another refinement, one that is comparable to what happened after the israelites and others returned from exile in babylon.

leaving_quietly

But I recall it implied that all the 144k could die off and the Org would be run by the "given ones" until the Big A. Did you get this too?

That's the impression that has been given, yes, though they don't come out and say that explicitly.

Here's the exact wording in the 1992 article:

In ancient times, priests and Levites continued to serve among the Jews. (John 1:19) Today, however, the remnant of spiritual Israel on earth must go on decreasing. (Contrast John 3:30.) Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8) But now the other sheep must go on increasing. The fact that some of them, comparable to the Nethinim and the sons of the servants of Solomon, are now being assigned weighty responsibilities under the oversight of the anointed remnant does not cause them to be presumptuous or feel self-important. (Romans 12:3) This gives us confidence that as God’s people “come out of the great tribulation,” there will be experienced men—“princes”—prepared to take the lead among the other sheep.—Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 32:1; compare Acts 6:2-7.

Another article was in 1995 (w95 7/1 pp. 21,22):

7 In 537 B.C.E., when Israel returned from exile in Babylon, they set about organizing service on the temple site. However, the Levites who returned were not very numerous. Hence, the Nethinim—circumcised alien residents who previously were assistants of the Levites—were given increased privileges in temple service. They were not, however, equals of the anointed Aaronic priests.—Ezra 7:24; 8:15-20; Nehemiah 3:22-26.
8 Anointed Christians today have followed this pattern. As “the time of the end” has progressed, the remaining ones of the anointed have become fewer and fewer in the “land” of God’s people. (Daniel 12:9; Revelation 12:17) In view of this, the great crowd now accomplish most of the work of rendering “sacred service.” (Revelation 7:15) Following the lead of their anointed brothers, they “offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name.” They “do not forget the doing of good and the sharing of things with others,” knowing that “with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”—Hebrews 13:15, 16.
9 Moreover, with the great crowd increasing by the hundreds of thousands each year, there is an ever-growing need for oversight. At one time this was handled exclusively by anointed Christians. Now, oversight of most congregations, as well as circuits, districts, and branches, has of necessity been entrusted to the other sheep. In 1992 a few of these were given the privilege of attending meetings of committees of the Governing Body and serving as nonvoting helpers. Still, the other sheep remain loyal to their anointed fellow Christians and feel privileged to support them as Jehovah’s faithful and discreet slave.—Matthew 25:34-40.

I suggest you also look at w97 5/15 pp. 15-19 as it has a discussion regarding the other sheep and its responsibilities. A search for "Nethinim" or "given ones" in the WT Library CD might be helpful.

16

Anthony Morris - AP's in August, 900%, increase, yet decrease in BS's

by berrygerry in

the only video that i've found of tomo is 39:00 minutes long - the ending is missing.. various posts mentioned highlights of the tremendous witness in august, with a 900% increase in ap's, as well as some other magnificent accomplishment that i cannot locate.. then i painfully listened to the video to verify, and at about 38:00, tomo bemoans the downward trend in bible studies.. the best august of all-time, yet downward trend.. looks like the toilet bowl is swirling.. .

.

leaving_quietly

Yeah, a little over 5000 each week. Big deal. Mormons have that, too. 5000 per week is 260,000 per year. Definitely not an increase. More like status quo.

13

"Opinions about dress and grooming..."

by leaving_quietly in

from the july 15, 2014 watchtower, page 15. par.

"opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy.

accordingly, if no scriptural principle is being violated, jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.

leaving_quietly

Yes, he did read 1 Tim 2:9. Notice, though, that the apostle Paul never explained what he said about modest or appropriate dress. He never got specific. He didn't offer an opinion. He left that to the consciences of those he was writing to. What Paul said was enough.

Thus, any OPINIONS about the color of socks and the tightness of pants or the age by which a male has to be a ministerial servant is just that, OPINIONS.

I would have had no issue if he had read the verse, then said something like: "Some have observed some of our brothers and sisters wearing clothing that is a little too tight or too revealing. Perhaps we should evaluate what we're wearing to see that it's modest and appropriate before we leave our homes." And leave it at that. Let people's own consciences guide them.

Of course, in a high-control group, controlling what people wear is one of the hallmarks. I realize that.

13

"Opinions about dress and grooming..."

by leaving_quietly in

from the july 15, 2014 watchtower, page 15. par.

"opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy.

accordingly, if no scriptural principle is being violated, jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.

leaving_quietly

From the July 15, 2014 Watchtower, page 15. par. 13:

"Opinions about dress and grooming, health and nutrition, and other personal matters may also trigger controversy. Accordingly, if no Scriptural principle is being violated, Jehovah's people wisely abstain from arguing over such matters, "for a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle [tactful, ftn.] toward all." - 2 Tim 2:24."

Seems yet another double standard has been applied as Anthony Morris apparently feels he is above this counsel.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly