Posts by pseudoxristos

18

When did Jesus become The Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the watchtower society says that jesus became "the christ" at his baptism: .

"holy spirit - the force behind the coming new order" book (1975), page 90: .

"when did this jesus become actually 'christ the lord'?

pseudoxristos

If I remember correctly, the idea that Jesus became Christ at his baptism is referred to as the "Adoptionist Theory" and it has a long history. I believe that the idea comes from Psalms 2:5-7

5 Then will he speak to them in his anger, and in his fierce displeasure will he terrify them: 6 And *I* have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness.
7 I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; *I* this day have begotten thee.
Psalms 2:5-7 (Darby's)

It is also worth noting the different methods that the gospel writers use when describing the announcement

Matthew portrays it as an announcement to all present.

16 And Jesus, having been baptised, went up straightway from the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him: 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight.
Matt 3:16-17 (Darby's)

Mark portrays it as an announcement to Jesus.

10 And straightway going up from the water, he saw the heavens parting asunder, and the Spirit, as a dove, descending upon him. 11 And there came a voice out of the heavens: *Thou* art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight.
Mark 1:10-11 (Darby's)

Luke portrays it as a announcement to Jesus.

22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form as a dove upon him; and a voice came out of heaven, *Thou* art my beloved Son, in thee I have found my delight.
Luke 3:22 (Darby's)

In the book of John, The Son of God is revealed to John the Baptist.

33 And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, *he* said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. 34 And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God.
John 1:33-34 (Darby's)

pseudo

29

My Introduction

by Loris in

jw
friends

this is my introduction.

i was baptized july 9, 1965 in san diego, california.

37 years of my life devoted to a carefully contrived lie.

pseudoxristos

Loris,

A warm welcome to a very brave person. Your stand against the Watchtower is admirable.

pseudo

20

is it for real?

by What_The in

jw
friends

hi, i am new to the forum and would like to introduce myself by telling you all how i feel about things.

this is aimed at the thousands of lost souls out there who dont know where to turn.

life is not complicated unless you make it so... we as humans start of in this world with absolutely no possessions, emotions ( except survival ones), basic needs, no stress, anger, sadness or despairity just to mention some.

pseudoxristos

Well said, and welcome to the forum.

pseudo

18

Way off topic: any CAD people here?

by Stan Conroy in

jw
friends

just wondering if there are any cad gurus on this site?

if so, what software are you using?.

stan

pseudoxristos

Jim_TX,

What do you think of P-CAD, and is it inexpensive?

I looking for a schematic capture/router for work. We are currently using an old DOS based CAD (Draftsman EE). The company that made the program went out of business years ago. Unfortunately, we have a lot of boards created with this old program and I don't think we will be able to convert them to any other format.

For everyone else, I also want to add that, you can get a simple CAD program for circuit boards from www.expresspcb.com. It can only be used to order boards from them, but for about $60 you can get 3 boards (about 3.5 x 2.5) in 2 days. This is great for prototypes.

pseudo

22

If You Never Were A JW, Would You Believe In God?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so many here do not believe in god, now.

some are not sure he exists.

if you never had been a jehovah's witness, do you think that you might still believe in a creator, in god?

pseudoxristos

Although I was never a Witness, they did cause me to take a serious look at my beliefs. So, Yes, I probably would still believe in God if it wasn't for them.

It wasn't until after coming to this forum that I realized that many have independently come to the same conclusions that I have. I think that the Watchtower takes religion to such a ridiculous extreme that many of its problems become apparent.

For a while I was very upset that the Watchtower had forced me to discard my former beliefs. The thought of life after death was very comforting to me. But in the end I must say that I am much happier now with my current belief or should I say disbelief. Atheism, does not answer all of lifes questions, but I feel that it explains much more than my former belief system. I definitely do not miss the uncertainty and guilt that I always felt when I believed in God.

pseudo

21

Do You Still Believe In Some Of The JW Religion?

by SpannerintheWorks in

.

which beliefs do you hold on to that you may have previously rejected as a non-jw?.

spanner

pseudoxristos

Sure, even though I can't stand to admit it, they are right about some things.

When your dead your dead.

No Hell

Don't go to Heaven.

Jesus is not God.

Of course I disagree on how they reached some of their conclusions. For example the Idea of torment in Hell, even though it isn't really in the OT, it is present in the NT and pre-Christian literature. The simple fact is that concept of Hell evolved over time along with a lot of other concepts found in the bible. The blood thirsty Mountian God in the OT evolved into the loving Father in the NT.

They have to be right on some things otherwise they would have a hard time convincing people that they have the truth. I always felt that they used the few truths that they did teach as leverage to get you to swallow their other crap.

pseudo

Edited by - pseudoxristos on 30 January 2003 22:50:25

3

The end is near, UN will turn against religion

by pseudoxristos in

jw
friends

or so implies a jw in a witness group on yahoo.

in a thread titled "child abuse and the u.n." a witness posted the following message.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/law/01/30/churchabuse.ap/index.html

pseudoxristos

Or so implies a JW in a Witness group on yahoo. In a thread titled "child abuse and the U.N." a witness posted the following message.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/30/churchabuse.ap/index.html
New claims against Boston Archdiocese name 13 additional priests
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories4/013003_suits.htm
he number of priests in the Boston Archdiocese accused of sexually molesting children grew to 130 yesterday, with the filing of a rash of new lawsuits that name 16 priests as molesters for the first time.
The new lawsuits, filed on behalf of 70 new alleged victims, include charges of rape, attempted rape, and fondling of minors against 40 priests and a former church worker who is believed to be a deacon. At least three of the 40 priests are in active ministry.
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories4/013003_lennon.htm
ishop Richard G. Lennon declared yesterday that the Archdiocese of Boston is in more serious financial trouble than he had thought, and that he expects to be closing schools and making other unpopular cutbacks over the next several weeks.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=6026&Cr=children&Cr1=conflict
Security Council calls for an immediate end to recruitment of child soldiers
The Council also noted with concern all the cases of sexual exploitation and abuse of women and children, especially girls, in humanitarian crisis, including those cases involving humanitarian workers and peacekeepers. In that regard, it requested contributing countries to incorporate the Six Core Principles of the Inter-Agency Standing Committee on Emergencies into pertinent codes of conduct for peacekeeping personnel and to develop appropriate disciplinary and accountability mechanisms.
Full reports all at the links above.
Its interesting that the U.N. must stand in "a holy place". Could the U.N. regulate religions via the governments and the courts in giving the welfare of children more protection in some form.It sure pays to stay awake for sure!! Hey just a thought!!

My first thought when seeing the title of the tread, was that a JW was going to bring up something about the problems of child molestation in the Organization and the recent UN association. Boy was I wrong, I should have known better.

The article in the link concerning the U.N. has absolutely nothing to do with religion. This is just another fanatic drooling in anticipation of persecution.

If the governments eventually take some action to help prevent child molestation in religion, I'm sure that Witnesses will be convinced that the governments are turning against them. Persecution is easy to find when you go looking for it, especially when you close your eyes to your own responsibility.

Anyway, I thought everyone would enjoy this insanely stupid post.

pseudo

Edited to fix formating

Edited by - pseudoxristos on 30 January 2003 21:36:47

34

Latest Watchtower PRAISES United Nations Relief

by minimus in

jw
friends

the feb. 15, 2003 wt.

has an article entitled, life in a refugee camp.

the whole article praises the unhcr, which is the united nations high commissioner of refugees.

pseudoxristos

I suspect that the current Praise of the UN is an attempt to minimize the past 10 years of disseminating UN propaganda. They can now say that the past 10 years of praise had nothing to do with the requirement to disseminate UN info. This is simply an attempt to blur the line between literature produced during the association and that produced after their association.

pseudo

50

The Book of Daniel

by SwedishChef in

the following was written by professor johseph d. wilson, d. d., and is about the prophecies and criticism of the book of daniel.

it was published in the four volume book series called "the fundamentals.".

modern objections to the book of daniel were started by german scholars who were prejudiced against the supernatural.

pseudoxristos

Seedy,
Your claim that Daniel is bogus goes unsupported. This article refutes many of the false claims against it.
Face it, Daniel was extremely accurate in his predictions and thats the only reason why you don't believe it.

The suggestion that "Daniel was extremely accurate in his predictions" is somewhat misleading. A more honest approach would suggest that writer of Daniel was extremely accurate in his writings concerning the period around 167-164BCE. His writings concerning the centuries prior to the second century BCE are less and less accurate. This is what has lead scholars to believe that it was written during the second century. If it was written in the second century, the author would have been more familiar with the current history and would of course recorded it more accurately then the history of the past centuries.

The writer's suggestion that new books would be opened in the last days, helped Daniel to quickly gain acceptance in a period of time when the Jews truly believed that they were in the last days. The second century BCE saw the development of many apocalyptic works very much like the book of Daniel. The simple explanation suggests that Daniel was indeed compiled in this time period.

pseudo

20

Analysis of Apostasy

by pseudoxristos in

jw
friends

a load of crap from a jw forum.

i thought everyone would gag enjoy.. .

i have recently written a short essay on the mode and operation .

pseudoxristos

Hey, I found a BS generator. This essay actually makes more sense.

http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/

My reply on the JW forum.

XXXX,

I think that Pickett observed this same phenomena in his
essay, "Constructivist narrative in the works of Fellini". Here is a
brief excerpt from it.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxx

Constructivist narrative in the works of Fellini
N. Rudolf Pickett

Department of Future Studies, University of Massachusetts, Amherst

1. Fellini and neosemantic discourse

If one examines the cultural paradigm of consensus, one is faced with
a choice: either accept constructivist narrative or conclude that
class, surprisingly, has intrinsic meaning, but only if the cultural
paradigm of consensus is invalid; otherwise, we can assume that
context is created by the collective unconscious. The premise of
Debordist image suggests that government is capable of significant
form.
But a number of dematerialisms concerning the role of the observer as
poet exist. The primary theme of Dietrich's[1] analysis of
presemanticist theory is the difference between sexual identity and
sexuality.
Therefore, Scuglia[2] states that the works of Fellini are
postmodern. The characteristic theme of the works of Fellini is the
dialectic, and eventually the rubicon, of subtextual class. Thus, an
abundance of sublimations concerning Debordist image may be
discovered. Baudrillard's critique of constructivist narrative holds
that the significance of the observer is social comment.

2. Narratives of futility

"Society is part of the defining characteristic of consciousness,"
says Lacan. But the main theme of McElwaine's[3] model of the
cultural paradigm of consensus is the bridge between class and art.
If Debordist image holds, we have to choose between dialectic
narrative and the neosemioticist paradigm of reality.
In the works of Fellini, a predominant concept is the concept of
dialectic sexuality. Thus, any number of theories concerning not, in
fact, materialism, but submaterialism exist. Bataille promotes the
use of the cultural paradigm of consensus to deconstruct society.
The characteristic theme of the works of Fellini is the
meaninglessness, and subsequent absurdity, of neosemanticist sexual
identity. In a sense, the primary theme of Dietrich's[4] critique of
constructivist narrative is not theory, but pretheory. Many
sublimations concerning the textual paradigm of context may be
revealed.
"Art is impossible," says Lacan. But the subject is contextualised
into a cultural paradigm of consensus that includes language as a
whole. The premise of constructivist narrative implies that
narrativity is part of the dialectic of sexuality, but only if
culture is equal to consciousness.
If one examines Debordist image, one is faced with a choice: either
reject neoconstructive narrative or conclude that discourse is a
product of the masses. Thus, the main theme of the works of Fellini
is a self-referential reality. In Amarcord, Fellini affirms Debordist
image; in La Dolce Vita he analyses the cultural paradigm of
consensus.
"Sexual identity is unattainable," says Bataille. However, Sontag
suggests the use of constructivist narrative to challenge class
divisions. The characteristic theme of Wilson's[5] analysis of the
cultural paradigm of consensus is the difference between society and
sexual identity.
If one examines Debordist image, one is faced with a choice: either
accept the cultural paradigm of consensus or conclude that
narrativity is used to reinforce the status quo, given that
constructivist narrative is valid. Thus, Marx promotes the use of
subcultural Marxism to read and deconstruct class. The main theme of
the works of Fellini is a patriarchialist whole.
In the works of Fellini, a predominant concept is the distinction
between destruction and creation. It could be said that Lacan
suggests the use of constructivist narrative to attack class
divisions. Lyotard uses the term 'the cultural paradigm of consensus'
to denote the role of the artist as participant.
But the characteristic theme of Scuglia's[6] model of constructivist
narrative is the defining characteristic, and hence the absurdity, of
neosemiotic culture. Foucault promotes the use of the cultural
paradigm of consensus to modify class.
It could be said that the subject is interpolated into a
constructivist narrative that includes consciousness as a totality.
Von Ludwig[7] holds that we have to choose between Debordist image
and patriarchialist narrative.
But an abundance of discourses concerning the bridge between class
and society exist. Derrida suggests the use of constructivist
narrative to challenge outmoded perceptions of class.
In a sense, Sontag uses the term 'postsemantic narrative' to denote
the role of the writer as poet. Several deappropriations concerning
constructivist narrative may be discovered.
It could be said that Marx promotes the use of dialectic objectivism
to deconstruct and modify sexual identity. Any number of discourses
concerning the genre of pretextual society exist.
However, the collapse, and subsequent economy, of constructivist
narrative depicted in Stone's Natural Born Killers emerges again in
JFK. An abundance of theories concerning the cultural paradigm of
consensus may be found.
Thus, in Heaven and Earth, Stone denies constructivist narrative; in
JFK, however, he analyses the materialist paradigm of consensus. The
main theme of the works of Stone is the role of the reader as poet.
But Sartre suggests the use of Debordist image to challenge the
status quo. Baudrillard uses the term 'Sontagist camp' to denote a
self-falsifying reality.
Therefore, several narratives concerning the role of the writer as
reader exist. Derrida uses the term 'Debordist image' to denote the
common ground between sexual identity and society.

1. Dietrich, B. I. A. (1977) The Meaninglessness of Consensus:
Debordist image in the works of Cage. O'Reilly & Associates
2. Scuglia, S. V. ed. (1986) Debordist image and constructivist
narrative. Schlangekraft
3. McElwaine, M. (1970) Reassessing Expressionism: Constructivist
narrative and Debordist image. Yale University Press
4. Dietrich, U. G. ed. (1994) Debordist image and constructivist
narrative. University of Massachusetts Press
5. Wilson, Y. (1981) Dialectic Constructions: Constructivist
narrative and Debordist image. University of Illinois Press
6. Scuglia, O. Y. ed. (1997) Libertarianism, Baudrillardist
simulation and Debordist image. Schlangekraft
7. von Ludwig, I. Q. E. (1978) The Meaninglessness of Sexual
identity: Debordist image in the works of Stone. University of
Michigan Press