Posts by peacefulpete

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

Phizzy....IMO the generally ambiguous references to the death, even the ambiguous terminology, all contribute to the theological development of the story.

First off there was no specific noun or verb that differentiated the Roman (or earlier) use of a two or more piece implement for execution (or postmortem public suspension). Therefore, insisting that the words used have any particular narrow definition is bringing something to the text. (unless the context makes clear what the author is describing.) All relevant terminology appears to have had usage beyond the simple etymology of the words. Such is typical of language.

As Phizzy pointed out, there is a larger question in play. Given the pre-Christian symbolism of public execution and suspension (on tree, pole) we have to consider whether the earliest pre-Gospel Christians had the Roman execution methods in mind at all. For example, Doherty's thesis concludes that at the foundation of Christianity is a passion play in the spirit realm that was euhemerized in the Gospel story through use of OT typology and the contemporary Roman domination of Israel. Without further expansion on this thought, I'll suggest that this is consistent with the issue under discussion. The NT has the concept of 'suspension' (with theological implications) foremost, not the particular shape of the implement, though in some contexts it seems clear they had a cross in mind.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

The main conclusion regarding the terminology of crucifixion is that there does not appear to be any terminology of crucifixion — before the death of Jesus. All the mentioned terms share a crucial feature: none of them can be determined to mean “to crucify” or “cross” — by themselves. If this conclusion is correct, the majority of scholars have used an unsatisfactory method in their process of text selection. It is better to let the absence of fixed terminology illuminate the absence of a fixed punishment.

In short, he spends much time demonstrating just how the NT descriptions (albeit brief and implied) have colored interpretations of many other texts and resulted in unwarranted assumptions.

He concludes that it is most likely that at least some NT writers had a cross shaped implement in mind from expressions like stretch out arms, sign above head, nails in hands, and likely the carrying of the patibulum. This plus the evidence that the cross shape was in use in the first century, despite the WT claims otherwise.

However, as PioneerSchmioneer points out he also concludes that the symbolism of death by suspension had greater theological significance that seems to have dominated the conversation for most writers.

129

Is there “new light” on 1914?

by wallsofjericho in

i’m hearing paraphrasing like “we just don’t know” .

is this regarding 1914?

or micheal the arch angel?.

peacefulpete

I'd love to meet scholar. The shear dedication to this role is worthy of an Emmy. If you have a forum like this without someone repeatedly playing the WT foil to exJWs the discussions become uninteresting and unchallenging.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

It is a bit funny how the guy sees no anachronism in the use of the Babylonian calendar in the story about Noah. Remember there was only "one language", Hebrew, in all the earth at that time according to Genesis.

In reality the stories were redacted and compiled in the 6th-5th centuries BCE, a time when the Babylonian culture was pervasive.

27

Governing Body's failed doctrines blamed on Jehovah's gradual revealment

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9w8zmgli0.

( starts at the 21:00 minute mark ) governing body member jeffrey winder reveals the real reason for the failed doctrines throughout the watchtower's 150 year history.

he claims that the governing body are neither inspired or infallible.. the governing body do not need to apologize for getting doctrines wrong.. the governing body ''do their best with what they have and what they understand at the time.''.

peacefulpete

The 'new light' is no more correct than the old light. When the police point out holes in an alibi, a 'new' alibi becomes necessary. The book is large and open to interpretation, providing endless 'new' ways to connect the dots.

Or said another way, calling out Marco Polo in the circular kiddie pool doesn't get you closer to China, you are just making noise until you open your eyes.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92381/1.ashx

37

My grandmother called my mother

by Anony Mous in

so, i’m just posting this as a warning to lurking jws.

if you’re still on the fence, here is a story.. my grandmother, now in her 80s hasn’t talked to anyone in the family for over 20 years ever since my mother was the last one of her children that left ‘the truth’, she had sent my mother a card to never talk to her again.

so here we are 21 years later, she gets a call out of the blue that she needed help, she hadn’t been able to get into her kitchen.

peacefulpete

On balance, I'll share an experience from just this afternoon. At the laundromat I say hello to a mature woman and make small talk regarding the new owners of the facility. As we talk, she mentions in jest that I had just missed out and that JWs had given her a magazine a few minutes prior my arriving. Seeing the magazine, I politely mention that I had to share something regarding the JWs. She listened as I briefly described the damage the religion had done in my family. What followed was very interesting. She unloads emotionally as she retells her own church story. She was raised a very devout Catholic as is most of her family. Her husband had terminal cancer some years ago and she was faced with the decision to discontinue life support. She did what she felt best and was her husband's wishes and had the staff turn off the machinery.

Her family found out what she did and called her a murderer. A member of her family reported it to the local priest who also condemned her actions as murder. The woman's 12-year-old daughter hears all this and is overwhelmed by guilt, confusion and fear. She asks her mom sobbing, "Did you kill Daddy? "

The mother spent weeks sleeping on the floor next to her bed to reassure her she loved her and that she was not a murderer. Through all this her family and church abandoned her when she and the daughter needed friends more than ever.

Her conclusion? She was done with her church, and she recognized that not all family are going to be friends. Since then, she resolved to be true to herself and be a better friend than people were to her and her daughter.

True story happened just hours ago.

2

Art Lessons

by peacefulpete in

last night's jeopardy match made reference to sandro botticelli the famous italian renaissance painter and his painting the birth of venus.

it led me to read more about his story.

you can follow the links to wiki to learn more, but in short, i wanted to focus on one of his later paintings, the mystical nativity.

peacefulpete

What became of Botticelli?

Botticelli was a follower of (strict moralist) Savonarola's, and this was why he gave up painting and then fell into considerable distress as he had no other source of income. None the less, he remained an obstinate member of the sect, becoming one of the piagnoni, the snivellers, as they were called then, and abandoning his work; so finally, as an old man, he found himself so poor that if Lorenzo de' Medici ... and then his friends and ... [others] had not come to his assistance, he would have almost died of hunger.[106]

2

Art Lessons

by peacefulpete in

last night's jeopardy match made reference to sandro botticelli the famous italian renaissance painter and his painting the birth of venus.

it led me to read more about his story.

you can follow the links to wiki to learn more, but in short, i wanted to focus on one of his later paintings, the mystical nativity.

peacefulpete

Last night's Jeopardy match made reference to Sandro Botticelli the famous Italian renaissance painter and his painting the Birth of Venus. It led me to read more about his story. You can follow the links to wiki to learn more, but in short, I wanted to focus on one of his later paintings, The Mystical Nativity. At this point in his life Botticelli was much influenced by Friar Girolamo Savonarola who had effectively assumed control of Florence.

Savonarola was a populist preacher tired of what he perceived as corruption and exploitation of the common man. He preached a new prosperity for Florence, as the New Jerusalem. Richer, more powerful, more glorious than ever. And this was sure to come soon. Very soon. He prophesied a Cyrus-like King was to come over the mountains and restore Florence to untold greatness.

Lo and behold! in 1492 Charles the VIII King of France came over the mountains, and many declared Savonarola a true prophet, but of course he was not coming to liberate Florence as much as exploit it. Again, read more on the links provided.

In the end the pope had had enough of Savonarola and had him publicly executed.

Back to the painting, The Mystical Nativity . A curious text reads at the top:

'This picture, at the end of the year 1500, in the troubles of Italy, I, Alessandro, in the half-time after the time, painted, according to the eleventh [chapter] of Saint John, in the second woe of the Apocalypse, during the release of the devil for three and a half years; then he shall be bound in the twelfth [chapter] and we shall see [him buried] as in this picture'

Our painter Botticelli had come to the conclusion that he was living in the last of the last days. He boldly declared in this painting that the year 1500 was of great significance and soon in 3 1/2 years the devil would be bound away.

Mystic_Nativity,_Sandro_Botticelli.jpg (2780×4026) (wikimedia.org)

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

peacefulpete

Kosonen...Your comments illustrate the didactic intent and value of those stories. Parable and narrative novel are powerful means of moral instruction and motivation. The reader was meant to ask questions, "How would I have felt in that situation? Would I have complained?"

In addition, they provide typological reinforcement of the concept of divine providence and blessing. Jesus, just like Elijah, survived 40 days (or Israel 40 years) eating what angels of God provided, "so why should I lack faith in God's ability to take care of me?" This again is how these stories were meant to be read and understood.