while this topic might at first seem to come from left field, it has arisen in my mind when reading a number of recent threads.
this topic in full requires many hours of research to fully assimilate but i'm now only introducing the topic and encouraging further reading.
in short, by the end of the common era judaism included various heavenly figures that took on roles that, for all practical purposes, were those of god.
2 Esdras 7:28 My Son Joshua[a] will be revealed along with those who are with him, and those who remain will rejoice for four hundred years.
29 “After these years, my Son the anointed one and all who have human breath will die. 30 The world will be turned back to primeval silence for seven days, as in the earliest beginnings so that no one is left alive.
early christian apocalyses
i thought it would be a good idea to put together into a single thread all the early 1st.
cent.
Recent posters may enjoy this thread. read carefully and enjoy.
few years ago i did a thread that i hope has helped some folks.
maybe it is time to 'recycle' it.. did the writer of rev 11:18 (ruin those who ruin the earth) somehow anticipate the modern environmental situation, or did he intend something more in keeping with the bible's general concerns of morality and sin?.
secondly, how does the context help to interpret it?.
you still haven't answered Revelation 8:9 about ships physical objects being "diaphiro"
I did by repeating the definition. The word is a very good parallel to the word ruin in English. It can mean corrupted, despoiled, destroyed etc. That's why 11:18 was a clever antanaclasis. God ...ruin those ruining the earth.
I understood you had access to a professor of ancient Greek.
And I do mean what I said about unplugging from this stuff. Leaving an apocalyptic sect like the WT means being free to think about the beautiful things in life and stop fearing/wishing/preaching about destruction.
few years ago i did a thread that i hope has helped some folks.
maybe it is time to 'recycle' it.. did the writer of rev 11:18 (ruin those who ruin the earth) somehow anticipate the modern environmental situation, or did he intend something more in keeping with the bible's general concerns of morality and sin?.
secondly, how does the context help to interpret it?.
raymond franz....Greek for "ruin" is diaphtheirai it is defined as "morally corrupt, defile, destroy" and is used numerous times in the NT and in the Greek translations of OT. So the Greek can mean "destroy those who are corrupting the earth" which would be perfectly consistent with the general message of the authors of the Bible,
I hope that answers your question.
I'm actually quite polite and actually crave thoughtful exchange. So glad you feel like me, free to both share and learn. What part of the last comment to you was incorrect or offensive?
i've had this happen a number of times.
i know an archived thread regarding luke 22:exists as i was recently reading it, but now is no longer available.
it does not come up when using any combination of words that i know to be in the thread.
I must be doing something. I tried to post a thread again and it did not appear overnight so this morning I tried again. Now it appears so we have a duplicate.
I tried a quick thread a few days ago that has never appeared. After clicking the blue "Start New Topic" button, the first of 3 stages seems to complete then it just spins stuck on the second stage.
Any way please delete the duplicate thread. Ruining the Earth..2.0
Maybe delete both threads, the comments it has attracted are not helpful and I'm getting too tired of arguing.
Also I have tried to message Simon but messages still are not working. Nothing happens when I click the "send Message" button.
few years ago i did a thread that i hope has helped some folks.
maybe it is time to 'recycle' it.. did the writer of rev 11:18 (ruin those who ruin the earth) somehow anticipate the modern environmental situation, or did he intend something more in keeping with the bible's general concerns of morality and sin?.
secondly, how does the context help to interpret it?.
waton, By "ultimate application" you mean free reinterpretation unbounded by context, both textually and culturally but formed by modern technology and fears.
few years ago i did a thread that i hope has helped some folks.
maybe it is time to 'recycle' it.. did the writer of rev 11:18 (ruin those who ruin the earth) somehow anticipate the modern environmental situation, or did he intend something more in keeping with the bible's general concerns of morality and sin?.
secondly, how does the context help to interpret it?.
Waton, glad you're not having bed room issues. You can be certain the meaning the author intended is 'corrupted'.
raymond franz....No. Your logic is flawed. Notice 19:2 used the same word gēn when condemning Rome's corruption/ruining of the earth. Further, your parsing of definitions between oikoumeni (3625) and gen are overly literal and limiting. Oikoumeni simply means land that is inhabited. It does not mean the people apart from the land. Gen and oikoumeni are interchangeable in most contexts. Go consult with your Greek professor. Better yet get yourself a good novel and step away from the apocalypse stuff for a while.
bible says flood occurred approximately 4000 years ago.
that is about *200 generations of breeding to get to the population on earth now.
keep in mind that the population increase is geometric.
I just used my mind and levitated a glass that was 3.6 meters away, 2.3 meters into the air. The glass held 350ml of water. The water turned into 3.345 ml of blood. My living room is 4 meters wide and ceiling is 2.9 meters tall. The glass is a 450ml glass. Everyone ought to believe my story because it is mathematically possible.
i do wonder about the universe as we know it .
it does boggle my mind ,and how such a variety of life does exist on this planet ,from the microscopic to the most advanced life forms.. in such an abundance .?.
and then looking out there in the universe the multitudes of stars like our sun and planets exist that we have no knowledge of boggles my mind .. so ,maybe i am spiritual in some sense..
what am I to take from this? That those who don't believe in God think that this life isn't all there is after all?
No, but "all there is" is pretty damn amazing when you stop wishing for something better.
i mean, the jws have many faults, as each of us have.. do you know any other group that does?.
Cofty's comment early on, makes the point. Finding a "church that knows God" implies you "know" what God is so as to make that determination. Finding a group of people you like is easier to understand. Finding a philosophy you agree with, that makes sense.
