Posts by peacefulpete

5

Is or was JEHOVAH GOD partial , and still is ?

by smiddy3 in

i mean for the fact that he only dealt with and chose one body of people ?.

whatabout all of the other bodies of people all around the earth at that time ?.

apparently he didn`t care much for them !.

peacefulpete

In much of the ancient world gods were regional patrons of the local people. The writers of the OT make this clear, Yahweh was their god whereas Chemosh,, for example, determined the possession of land for the Ammonites and Moabites.

Do you not possess what aChemosh your god gives you to possess? So whatever the Yahweh our God has driven out before us, we will possess it.

The failure to bless the local patron deity with gifts and worship was understood to result in loss and hardship. Amazingly when peoples traveled to other lands they routinely gave gifts and prayers to the local deities to ensure passage and prosperity while in that land. The Egyptians even set up small shrines to local deities throughout Palestine which actually place the Egyptian Hathor in a subservient position to the local gods. The deities of the Levant were even honored back home in Egypt for the purpose of protecting Egyptian interests and family living there. Similarly, an industry of producing amulets or blessing totems for Yahweh for those passing through Israel/Judah existed as in many other places.

20

Hell, what is it

by Anony Mous in

so perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.

and the bible provides confirmation for this.

at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.

peacefulpete

Vanderhoven....The earliest Christian conception of death is a continuation of the intertestamental ideas. Death of the body left the soul in a state of sleep or semiconsciousness until resurrected where their fates were divided. The WT take on this is too literal. They suggest death is a complete cessation of existence and resurrection therefore necessarily means a duplicate clone is created. If you want to get a very good review of this topic try:

Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament: Johnston, Philip S.: 9780830826872: Amazon.com: Books

Stories like the witch of Endor is pretty definitive about the belief that the dead were in some state of stasis but can be brought back to interact with the living. The fact that inquiring of the dead was a common practice and gifts of food on the graves also shows this. The appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is pretty clear as well. The rich man and Lazarus story agrees with the idea that was popular that the souls awaited resurrection in different chambers of the heavens with different conditions. Nothing in the NT radically departs from the 'scriptures' of the intertestamental period.

20

Hell, what is it

by Anony Mous in

so perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.

and the bible provides confirmation for this.

at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.

peacefulpete

The Jewish notions of death were hardly uniform, however the ancient conception of the dead existing as 'shades' in a quasi-alive, mostly powerless state seemed to continue in some form till the age of Christianity. There were many very explicit writings that anticipated a future judgement of the souls in-waiting in sheol (or lower level in heaven). They were to be resurrected, those who were righteous would receive some blissful reward while those who were evil suffered, body and soul, in a terrible place of fire.

Leolaia compiled some good material on this topic:

Gehenna.

5

A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

by peacefulpete in

as we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name yhwh.

the folk etymology of ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility.

however, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult.

peacefulpete

Anony mous.....Yes , the Israelites and Judahites were originally Canaanite in cult and culture and worshipped the deities of the land. The most ancient poems and song in the OT preserve this heritage. However, in the standard model of the introduction and adoption of Yahweh, the priests subsumed language and metaphor of the indigenous gods El and Baal especially. It does seem well supported to say that as El receded into the background throughout Canaan his imagery was incorporated into Yahweh's. Baal however remained very popular throughout much of the so-called first temple period, The two cults were in near constant rivalry for centuries. This thread's proposal suggests the etymology of the name itself contributed to this conflict by describing Yahweh as a storm god as well as a passionate/jealous one. There was only room for one deity in this role.

Reformers during and after the exile revised Yahweh into a universal god no longer concerned with just Israel/Judah but conceived to be the King of all nations.

5

A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

by peacefulpete in

as we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name yhwh.

the folk etymology of ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility.

however, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult.

peacefulpete

Anony Mous...just to make clear this hypothesis is that YHWH was not indigenous to Canaan but introduced at some point around the 13th century BCE. This explains the constant struggle the YHWH priests had trying to oppose the worship of indigenous deities until Josiah made it a state religion by force.

This proposal also may offer some explanation for the aniconism prohibitions. It is felt that the prohibition is rooted in the notion of jealousy in Deut 5

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,...

Interestingly, there appears to be support for Midianite aniconism. According to Prof. Israel Knohl a couple expeditions to the region in the 1960's found no signs of the use of idols.

5

A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

by peacefulpete in

as we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name yhwh.

the folk etymology of ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility.

however, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult.

peacefulpete

As we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name YHWH. The folk etymology of Ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility. However, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult. The Kennite Hypothesis, as it is often called, uses OT and other epigraphic evidence to conclude the cult of YHWH was imported north via traders from Arabia. If this is correct it seems logical to seek a proto-Arabic root behind the name of the deity. A number of scholars have suggested HWY as that root.

The Arabic root HWY has three meanings. 1. To be Passionate/Jealous, desirous 2. to fall 3. to blow.

2 and 3 both make sense as weather terms. And the well known storm god aspects of YHWH make this a very attractive suggestion. The falling rain and wind associations would explain many aspects of the theophanic description of YHWH and why he is depicted as in constant struggle with the indigenous storm god Baal.

Even more, the first definition "Passionate" may go a long way in explaining declarations like that at EX 34:14, and Deut 5:7,9

For you must not worship any other god, because YHWH, whose name is Impassioned, is an impassioned God.

5:7You shall have no other gods besides Me… 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I YHWH your God am an impassioned God….

This may also further explain the often-repeated analogy of a husband/wife jealousy in describing the relationship of YHWH with his worshipers. Also, the use of adultery as the metaphor of worship of other deities. This one root word having multiple meanings offers a parsimonious solution to a number of disparate aspects of the YHWH character. To take it a step further it may explain the earliest beginnings of monolatry/monotheism. This god whose very name means 'passionately jealous' demanded exclusive commitment in the eyes of his priests.

I find this proposal to be attractive and persuasive in its explanatory power and its recognition of the Kennite hypothesis.

9

Does This Case Show The Value of the 2 Witness Rule ?

by BluesBrother in

i read this in the public area of jwtalk, about a canadian case concerning reena virk, over 20 years ago..

“manjit, her father, got arrested by the police due to reena's accusation of sexual abuse.

he lost his job, many of his friends and almost his family.

peacefulpete

False Allegations of Sexual Abuse (psychiatrictimes.com)

10

Viruses Killed The Woolly Mammoths.

by LostintheFog1999 in

i can remember the original turquoise coloured evolution book produced by the organisation and the numerous public talks around it.

mind-blowing to a gullible youngster growing up in a jw family.. the flood of noah's day when thousands of tons of suspended water fell from the atmosphere and on hitting the cold poles instantly plunged the woolly mammoths into a deep freeze, to the extent that the last mouthful of grass was still there in the mouth in mid-chomp.

you can quickly see why a kid with a fertile imagination was transfixed by those apparently up-to-date scientific discoveries as presented by the wt org!.

peacefulpete

Doropoffkeylee, ...you said a mouthful. 10 minutes of googling can go a long way in understanding the state of the science on any topic. Mammuthus was a genus with quite a few varied species living over millions of years. The last species known was the woolly mammoth. It was largely extinct thousands of years before the mythological flood of Noah was supposed to take place. This includes the frozen specimens and tusks found on mainland Siberia. The few hold outs of pygmy mammoths on islands off Russia were wiped out by hunters and habitat loss. IOW there was no one reason for the disappearance of the genus, species died out millions of years ago to as recent as 4000 years ago. They went extinct for the same reason species do today. Climate change, competition, predation and disease.

40

Is it Logical To Beleive In A Creator - GOD ? In This Scientific Age ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i don`t think so .

hasn`t science ,astronomy ,time , .....proven it an illogical beleif ?.

with the information about this solar system and it`s planets ,other stars and their planets that we have information about ,and the fact that no god has ever revealed him/her self in any shape or form 'there is no evidence that a creator / god has ever existed.. except in the minds of humans who want to control a section of humanity .. the fact that religions rely on "you have to have faith" to beleive in a god ,surely is a cop out.. i look forward to your comments .. and a happy new year to you all..

peacefulpete

As soon as you grant something might exist outside our understanding of time/energy/matter your timeline necessarily ends. Temporal debates about what existed 'before' that point are by definition wrong. Theoretical physics maintains a consistent nonmagical paradigm in postulating an as yet unknown, and likely fundamental, nontemporal explanation whereas theologians postulate a magical complex being (or beings) who just happens to act like us, look like us and love us. Who is behaving more logically?

40

Is it Logical To Beleive In A Creator - GOD ? In This Scientific Age ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i don`t think so .

hasn`t science ,astronomy ,time , .....proven it an illogical beleif ?.

with the information about this solar system and it`s planets ,other stars and their planets that we have information about ,and the fact that no god has ever revealed him/her self in any shape or form 'there is no evidence that a creator / god has ever existed.. except in the minds of humans who want to control a section of humanity .. the fact that religions rely on "you have to have faith" to beleive in a god ,surely is a cop out.. i look forward to your comments .. and a happy new year to you all..

peacefulpete

To me it makes most sense to think that existence, and human consciousness, are the result of the intention of a supreme being who is outside of time and space.

To argue against the (highly speculative) scientific models of origins of space/time and matter/energy by asserting a complex deity with intention and will existing without existence in space/time matter/energy you are not just being speculative you are compounding that speculation with projections of a highly derivative Judeo/Christian conceptionualization that evolved some 13 billion years later. We know much about how religions evolved from simple animistic, totemic attempts to control the environment to more elaborate philosophical ones through millennia of human ingenuity and imagination.

IOW though we don't presently know, and may never know, exactly what mechanism spawned the spark of the physical universe (or even if that is a valid question), we do know what it couldn't have been. It's like supposing the military success of Assyrians to their having F16s.