Posts by Londo111

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Londo111

I should add…

Although lip service is given that elders are not “above” their fellow brothers and sisters, and they are not supposed to be position minded, ect, ect—human nature is human nature.

Being an elder can become a source of religious pride. Any who might be inclined to disagree should examine why then being removed or stepping down is viewed a source of great shame.

It’s not easy to become an elder. It takes years of work to be appointed…and it takes allot of work to maintain that position. They must be viewed as exemplary under the Watchtower mindset. Therefore, they are on a pedestal of sorts, despite any denial to the contrary.

Sometimes being an elder involves visiting neighboring congregations and giving talks and then being taken out to eat by the congregation's hospitality.

They are complimented for their talks, ect…And if they work very hard, are liked by the CO, they might be given a part on the circuit assembly.

Human nature being what it is, this pedestal is addicting. Compliments are addicting. Recognition and approval is addicting. So yes, this can go to some people’s heads.

JWs are taught not to strive for any “worldly” achievements. But in the congregation, they are given the illusion of achievement that they are denied in the outside world. This theocratic version of achievement can go to some people’s heads as well.

There is also a segment of humanity that gravitate toward having strict rules for everything and complying with the letter of the law no matter how unreasonable. Some of these become elders.

Therefore, some elders do display a Barney Fife mentality. Believing themselves humble, they’ve a great amount of pride in their position which they are addicted to, and they enforce the tiniest rule, or hint of a rule.

The first rule is: Obey all rules!

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Londo111

The vast majority of elders are likely in their authentic self sincere people with good intentions. And as such, they may be nice people. Of course, everyone, even people who’ve done some less than nice things, has a nice side when the circumstances are favorable for it.

But here’s the thing: the individual that is in the role of elder is governed by the rules of the Watchtower Society and its Hierarchy, rather than their own individual conscience. Sure, their own personality can provide some variation, but it is sort of like a dog on a short lease. They only have so much leeway.

Elders are given a confidential rulebook, “Shepard the Flock of God”, which give the rules they must implement. They also have letters from the Branch, giving them further rules. They are given training at Kingdom Ministry school. The circuit overseer rolls through at least twice a year and reviews how compliant the elders are. Other elders are always watching and could report the person to the CO or the Branch. Any who are out of bounds are removed.

There is no room disagreement with Watchtower “guidelines”. That would be disagreeing with the “Faithful Slave”. It is viewed better to comply with the Slave even if their decision about something is mistaken, then to disobey the channel God has appointed. There is little room in obeying the Watchtower’s rules for personal feelings, of saying “I don’t like the way that was handled” or “that’s not very nice”. They have to do things “by the book”. They have to suppress their individual conscience.

When it’s time to vote, on a judicial committee, or if about another matter, if the elder is in the minority, it is sometimes encouraged for them to change their vote to go along with the majority.

Elders are expected to keep an eye on “the flock”, head off trouble if they see someone who may be “going astray”--and that is, those who aren’t complying with the written and unwritten rules of the Watchtower. Growing a beard, going to a school dance, considering higher education, dating without a chaperone, not reporting enough hours, ect…

Elders are not given real or extensive training like clergy in other denominations. Many are painters, window washers, construction workers…but they often encounter intense problems that require professional help. They cannot provide real help to people. And many times, this “help” comes in the form of a judicial committee with ultimately expels people in the time they need help the most. In reality, their main function is as an organizational policemen, rather than “shepherds” providing pastoral care.

Therefore: even the nicest, sincerest, humble elder can end up doing some pretty not nice things, things they otherwise would not do of their own accord. It is not them, it is the Watchtower, ultimately, the Governing Body who is the casual agent for their behavior.

Some elders who struggle with their conscience, end up stepping down. And some of those wake up, and are here and on other exJW forums.

Throughout history, many otherwise nice people have even committed outright atrocities because they believe they were serving the greater good.

80

Are there any ex-missionaries here??

by fulano in

i have been a missionary in the dominican republic for almost 10 years and i was wondering if there were any ex-missionaries on this forum.. i am back in my country now for 3 years and totally inactive.. what i noticed in those missionary-years was the lack of spiritual interest among the missionaries.. discussions were about rooms, cars and greater responsibilities, the bad territory.

and the local c.o.s and d.os.. was this only in the dr or are there other experiences??.

ere other experiences?

Londo111

After reading this, no wonder they repurposed Gilead.

82

How Far Up The Ladder Did You Go In JW Land?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i pretty much did it all.

vacation pioneered as a youngster and became a regular pioneer out of school.

i became a ms then an elder.....the organization pushes you to be somebody within the confines of their realm.

Londo111

I was a ministerial servant from 1990 to 1995. Then again 2000-2001.

I regular pioneered out of high school in 1990.

44

2017 Convention Video Remember The Wife Of Lot

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qpoelk2r4.

the dad in this is a total douche.

i dont know if the videos have become more judgemental and culty in the year since i left - or maybe im just noticing it more?.

Londo111

This is so over the top, I almost wonder if some of those involved in this video are awake.

35

Are Jehovah's Witnesses Mind Numbingly Boring To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i honestly think they are the most boring people on earth!

even when they produce their so called "new light", there's no excitement.

jws just do their thing and refuse to think about their useless lives.

Londo111

Being a JW, participating in JW activities, was mind numbingly boring.

But on the outside, I find the cult endlessly fascinating. It's like one slow motion train wreck.

51

Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.

by jwfacts in

there seems to be a number of different ways that apostates try to get jehovah's witnesses realise they do not have the truth, ranging from subtle comments to aggressive attacks.

do you have any that looking back helped you finally leave.

some of the methods include:.

Londo111

If I understand correctly, Watchtower had to pick up his medical bills.

He also disapproved of makeup and called women with makeup walking by "hussies".

24

"Privileges"

by minimus in

jw
friends

within the organization, jehovah's witnesses know that they must be dutiful and set an example for "worldly ones" as well as for their own brotherhood.

if a witness fails in setting the proper example, they may lose some 'privileges"..... what privileges did you look to have and what privileges did you lose?

?.

Londo111

A few years before I left, I became a low hour publisher. Field service was getting harder and harder for me in terms of anxiety. The elders took away “microphone privileges” to “encourage” me to pick up my hours. At the time, I found it more discouraging and did not help my anxiety or hours.

15

What was the craziest sight you brothers seen running mikes ?

by Chook in

eg ,babies jump where they shouldn't, those hairy old sisters.....

Londo111

A fellow mike-carrier tripped over a big bookbag that was in the aisle.

Another time, in a congregation with pole mikes, I accidentally hit a lady in the mouth and got lipstick on them mike.

51

Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.

by jwfacts in

there seems to be a number of different ways that apostates try to get jehovah's witnesses realise they do not have the truth, ranging from subtle comments to aggressive attacks.

do you have any that looking back helped you finally leave.

some of the methods include:.

Londo111

In 1990, when visiting Bethel, a whole crowd of apostates were in front protesting, holding up signs about Jesus being their mediator too, ect… None of that helped, it frightened me. Then later I saw Mr. Coffee, which cemented into my head what apostates were.

A person in my congregation in the late 90’s who I befriended said things that in retrospect were seeds to try to help me wake up. For instance, he mentioned about early JWs teaching that Jehovah lived around a star. I considered that hogwash.

Later, I discovered he looked at both a video of Ray Franz and gay porn on my computer. Therefore, I with another friend decided to approach him first to report himself to the elders. Poor guy was shaking like a leaf. I don’t think we ever pursued matters to the point of reporting him. Needless to say, the little things he said didn’t help me think, because he didn’t really present documented proof.

Over the years I accidently stumbled upon crazy looking websites with lots of ranting, like Danny Hazzard or Rick Fearon, and they came across exactly like the angry, bitter apostates Watchtower talked about. That didn’t help me.

I remember a forum I accidently stumbled across with post from the “Liberal Elder”, and a post where a woman said she was a pioneer and just discovered 607 BC was wrong. I considered these places traps. I didn’t believe for a moment that the poster was a pioneer, but rather an apostate pretending to be one.

Years later, when I first started to research 607 BC as a litmus test, looking for neutral sources, I did inevitably come across “apostate” sites, like this one or JWfacts. However, I basically assumed that I would have to weed through the lies, half-truths, and misrepresentations, with a kernel of truth here and there. However, over many months, I began to realize that sites like JWfacts were in fact 100% factual, whereas Watchtower were the ones being deceitful.