Londo111

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Posts by Londo111

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  12

  Full Regional Convention 2016 Outlines Leak in Spanish

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the full program has been leaked in spanish.. http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?27685-juego-de-bosquejos-de-discursos-de-la-asamblea-regional-2016.

  here is my back up, including the files already extracted: link.

  i have yet to read it.

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  Londo111

  Thank you. I just read and skimmed the English translation.
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  3

  Hushai: Theocratic Warfare on "Apostates"?

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  thanks to wifibandit, i skimmed the convention outline here:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5685332821409792/full-regional-convention-2016-outlines-leak-spanishi noticed this part:hushai showed that was loyal to the anointed appointed by jehovah.

  return to jerusalem and skillfully pretended to be a friend of traitors.

  proved to be wise when he gave them a tip he knew the lead to failure.it almost makes me wonder if they will attempt to implement this.

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  Londo111

  Thanks to wifibandit, I skimmed the convention outline here:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5685332821409792/full-regional-convention-2016-outlines-leak-spanish
  

  I noticed this part: Hushai showed that was loyal to the anointed appointed by Jehovah. Return to Jerusalem and skillfully pretended to be a friend of traitors. Proved to be wise when he gave them a tip he knew the lead to failure.
  

  It almost makes me wonder if they will attempt to implement this. Of course, nobody could pretend to a friend to "apostates" without getting exposed to TTATT. But one wonders if they would attempt to do this.
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  11

  All or Nothing: The Slippery Slope of Watchtower Morality

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”.

  a minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.

  take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet.

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  Londo111

  Thanks, Millie210.

  I recall one time a young adult woman, a pioneer, was living with my family. In the early morning, I went to go to the bathroom, but it was occupied by this pioneer taking a shower. In kneeling in front of the closed door was a relative, an elder. I can't prove that this elder was attempting to look through the crack of the door to catch a glimpse of her coming out the shower, but it really is what it looked like to me. I can think of no other explanation.

  Now I'm the same age as the relative. I realize that I would never do anything of the sort. It's entirely wrong. Of course, it is not that I'm "superior", but I've the same innate conscience that most people have, and an ounce of maturity. I have a natural aversion of being voyeuristic like that...it's wrong.

  I'm sure the relative realized what he was doing was wrong, but the slippery slope of Watchtower Morality warping effect on people under its influence.

  
  
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  2

  Even heard of Brown's Wonder Salve? Pioneers (colporters) used to sell with with the publications.

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw this old news article posted on another forum:.

  http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030431/1917-02-04/ed-1/seq-52/.

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  Londo111

  Ah thanks. This forum moves faster than I can keep up sometimes.
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  2

  Even heard of Brown's Wonder Salve? Pioneers (colporters) used to sell with with the publications.

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw this old news article posted on another forum:.

  http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030431/1917-02-04/ed-1/seq-52/.

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  Londo111

  I saw this old news article posted on another forum:

  http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030431/1917-02-04/ed-1/seq-52/
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  31

  Availability Crisis of Conscience.

  by Ben131895 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  most of us are desperately waiting for the availability of a legal crisis of conscience.

  deborah dykstra provided us with two updates.

  on december 12, 2015 there was a clear statement about the copyright which stopped all illegal activity in spreading electronic versions & prints.. finally, she promised a new update by or before may 6.. so far no new update.

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  Londo111

  This is one of those books that should be "open sourced"...also not used as a political football in a vendetta. 
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  11

  All or Nothing: The Slippery Slope of Watchtower Morality

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”.

  a minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.

  take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet.

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  Londo111

  Thank you, Tazemanian-devil! :)
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  35

  “Even if this wasn’t the Truth, I need the structure.”

  by Londo111 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i remember many years back a fellow ministerial servant saying this to me.

  he felt that even if jehovah’s witnesses were not the only true religion, the regimented routine of meetings and field service and the strict rules and enforcement provided a beneficial structure for his life.

  at the time i thought if this wasn’t “the truth”, i’d have no need for all that “structure”.

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  Londo111

  LOL! That is a funny joke! :)
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  150

  I'm getting baptized

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

  my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

  i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

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  Londo111

  You definitely have to make your own decision on this.

  However, note the vast consensus that is coming from the people here that are much older than you and have more life experience. If I was 15 again and knew what I knew now, I certainly would start backpedalling before getting dunked.

  Until you get dunked, it’s not too late to back out. Once you do this, they can use the shun gun on you to keep you in line. This is why the Governing Body are pushing for this in order to make and retain members. If you do this, you will be walking into the lion’s mouth.
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  11

  All or Nothing: The Slippery Slope of Watchtower Morality

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”.

  a minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.

  take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet.

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  Londo111

  There is a common saying that “the crime should fit the punishment”. A minor violation should receive a minor correction; a major violation receives a major punishment.

  Take the example of a kid who accidently spills soda on the carpet. I’d have a low opinion of a parent that would go ballistic over such a mistake. Sometimes one can diffuse a situation by saying, “Spilling a soda on the carpet…that’s worse than Hitler!” Obviously when said aloud, it sounds quite silly.

  In the Watchtower’s fundamentalist mindset, things are not always the weighed that way. In their teaching, Hitler might come back in the resurrection, but if you did or did not [fill in the blank], you might get everlastingly destroyed at Armageddon. And that fill in the blank might be, not being regular enough in field service, not attending all the meetings, or perhaps a married couple did something in bed that Watchtower said is out of bounds. It’s either all or nothing. It’s either “faithful in what is least” or everlasting death.

  Could you do more? Sometimes the thought is: Pioneer or die! Can you do any less? So perhaps you could have pioneered if you really tried hard enough, but you didn’t. Perhaps you were pioneering, but could’ve tried for a special assignment where “the need is greater”. Perhaps you watched fantasy movies. Sometimes a JW might not know what act of non-compliance one has done that could make one birdfood at the Big A. To be safe, they might live a very strict life, or live in fear and doubt as far as their near future--sometimes both.

  You didn’t pioneer--that’s worse than Hitler! You watched Harry Potter--that’s worse than Hitler! Doesn’t that sound silly?

  This is reflected in Watchtower’s system of crime and punishment. Being disfellowshipped, in essence, is saying that a person is in line for everlasting death. Obviously, this is reinforced by shunning and the person becomes dead to their friends and family. It is a religious stoning.

  Volitions are not weighted. Did you murder someone? You can be disfellowshipped. Did you celebrate Christmas? You can be disfellowshipped. Did you go a little too far with someone you are dating? You can be disfellowshipped. Did a church hire you to do some maintenance? You can be disfellowshipped.

  Therefore, in that system of crime and punishment, something relatively minor in importance becomes equal to murder. That is even assuming the Governing Body’s interpretation of what is right and wrong is correct and overlooking how often it vacillated on issues like organ transplants, blood fractions, the YMCA, alternative service, and so forth.

  It is truly “a tenth of the mint and the dill and the cummin”, “straining out a gnat” but neglecting “weightier” matters. The Watchtower morality does not have its priorities straight.

  To a person who has bought into this belief, it doesn’t take much for someone to feel bad, evil, doomed, even criminal. If a minor matter is equivalent to something major, then how easy it is to think, “In for a penny, in for a pound. I might as well.” If a person becomes convinced they are evil, then sometimes, that might be how they act.

  It’s a slippery slope of morality.

  Take the Watchtower’s gradient of porn. A man viewing lesbian porn could be a disfellowshipping matter, but so is looking at child porn. Clearly the two are not equivalent! But under Watchtower both actions can receive the same punishment.

  Take another matter. Two people are dating and they go “too far”, perhaps a single man getting to “second base” with his girlfriend. Doing this one time might merit a slap on the wrist, as this would be viewed as “minor uncleanness”. But then Watchtower viewed Jonathan Kendrick’s doing the same toward his underage stepdaughter as “minor uncleanness” and got a similar slap on the wrist. But even though Watchtower weighted these situations the same, clearly the two matters were not equivalent!

  Of course, there are people who are of a predatory or sociopathic nature, to whom no system of punishment would deter, and they would not be swayed any by fear, guilt, or obligation. And not everyone under Watchtower morality goes down that slippery slope.

  I believe people naturally have an innate sense of right and wrong, as well as common sense. In general, many people do not even need a law or rule enforced by an external agency to do the right thing and to avoid the bad. But Watchtower morality can warp this, skewing perspective and priorities.

  During the Australian Royal Commission, it was brought up that certain repressive environments produce “perfect storms” that lead to things such as higher rates of child abuse. Of course, the Watchtower organization is not the only group where such perfect storms exist, but nonetheless it is recognized by experts that the conditions in Watchtower are rife for such things to occur.