Posts by Londo111

84

Does bethel monitor this site?

by 2tone in

jw
friends

i dont want to stir up conspiracy theories.

is there any strong evidence out there that would suggest that bethel monitors this site?.

Londo111

Some time after reading this thread, a few things occurred to me that I hadn't thought of in a while. This doesn't have anything to do with Bethel or this website.

However, I heard about this experience over a year back: A brother's wife left him, and after a year, she joined a JW Dating Site. Long story short: an elder on the other end of town called this man's father, inquired into the situation, and told the father about the profile on the Dating Site. The man had to hear about this from his father…instead of the elder calling him directly. Therefore, it seems logical that there was some monitoring going on.

Another experience, way before the internet, that an older elder once related: They used to "police the flock" in the olden days. In one case, they followed one brother into a gay bar and found him holding hands with another man. And in another case, they followed another brother who was suspected of having an affair with his secretary--but they were never able to prove anything. Eventually new direction came from headquarters to discontinue this. They were no longer to "police the flock".

I guess all this goes in conjunction with what was said by Brother Franz in one of his books, how the Branch spied on a gathering of former Witnesses, taking pictures of those who were going in. The spies were caught and arrested--of course, no trail leading back to the Society. Individuals end up falling on their swords, but the true Masterminds get away.

84

Does bethel monitor this site?

by 2tone in

jw
friends

i dont want to stir up conspiracy theories.

is there any strong evidence out there that would suggest that bethel monitors this site?.

Londo111

Some time after reading this thread, a few things occurred to me that I hadn't thought of in a while. This doesn't have anything to do with Bethel or this website.

However, I heard about this experience over a year back: A brother's wife left him, and after a year, she joined a JW Dating Site. Long story short: an elder on the other end of town called this man's father, inquired into the situation, and told the father about the profile on the Dating Site. The man had to hear about this from his father…instead of the elder calling him directly. Therefore, it seems logical that there was some monitoring going on.

Another experience, way before the internet, that an older elder once related: They used to "police the flock" in the olden days. In one case, they followed one brother into a gay bar and found him holding hands with another man. And in another case, they followed another brother who was suspected of having an affair with his secretary--but they were never able to prove anything. Eventually new direction came from headquarters to discontinue this. They were no longer to "police the flock".

I guess all this goes in conjunction with what was said by Brother Franz in one of his books, how the Branch spied on a gathering of former Witnesses, taking pictures of those who were going in. The spies were caught and arrested--of course, no trail leading back to the Society. Individuals end up falling on their swords, but the true Masterminds get away.

20

Wish I didnt know....Part 2 My Story

by Wishididntknow in

after a terrible break up and being away from the congregation for about 10yrs i started to think about coming back.

i couldnt even watch the news anymore because of the termendous anxiety it would cause.

i felt that there was a target on my back and the big a would surely come before i could get my act together.

Londo111

Wishididntknow,

I feel the important thing, now that you know, is what you do with that knowledge. If you find purpose in it, that purpose can impel you overcome the grief you are experiencing. Our brothers and sisters in the organization are trapped and they need a way out. They feel the clichés of 'Where else am I going to go? There is no other hope.'

I feel that there is a real hope to be had. And that we can channel this knowledge into positively helping others. Of course, this knowledge is like nitroglycerin. Used right, it can heal. Used wrong, it can blow up in our face. You can be quiet force for good, nudging your brothers and sisters to think.

This is a website that I've found most helpful: www.JWStruggle.com

52

How many people on here have low self-esteem?

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

i do, so i was just curious.. i know the org tends to attract/cause/contribute to people having low self-esteem, so i figure a lot of people must have it as bad or worse than me..

Londo111

I don't think anybody on this board have lower self-esteem than I. I take a certain pride in the achievement. ;)

30

Thoughts and Opinions on the VAA?

by arko_n9ne in

as i've posted multiple times before, i am new to many of the aspects of wts scandals so a couple weeks ago, i was on youtube and heard of a group concept from tim kilgore called the vaa (vast apostate army).. personally, i like the concept of former witnesses and anti-watchtower proponents uniting to stand against the wrong doings of the organization.

i would like their rally in a few years to succeed.

if things look promising enough, i more than likely will go.. but honestly, i don't know much about the vaa, and since it's not a concept with that "new car smell" i imagine people have more infor to offer.. i saw on older posts that witnesses are not fans of the idea of anyone banding together en masse against them, as they go to the lengths of calling the vaa a terrorist organization (though no acts of violence or tyranny have been committed or threatened).. so if anyone can offer insight into this group, it would help a man know if it's a group worth rallying with.. .

Londo111

I am skeptical about how effective this would be to help those trapped by the Society. Cults pull the emotional strings of fear and guilt and by creating a Bogeyman, it would seem to help the Society. They then have something tangible to point to and say, "See there! The Evil Slave!"

Individual Witnesses are not the enemy--and they are not blind. Many see and experience the problems in the organization. They most likely wonder why certain things are done and taught in "God's organization" and struggle under cognitive dissonance. Then they think, "But where you going to go?" One well presented thought could help them break the Cycle.

However, by pretending to be the Bogeyman, that Witness will run back into the arms of "Mom" for protection and say, "You were right! You were right!"

It was Rutherford that forced the rank and file to do things such as carry Snare&Racket signs in front of churches. There was no better recipe for antagonism. I feel such things are tactics that he would approve of. I could see Rutherford's sneer of approval, thinking how it would solidify the organization he built.

If our objective is to help those trapped, I feel we must be like this if we want to be effective: "He will not wrangle, nor cry aloud, nor will anyone hear his voice in the broad ways. No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering flaxen wick will he extinguish."

Lastly, I think some of us object to the word Apostate. It is hate speech. I for one will not accept the label.

14

Is this really a balanced life?

by ShawnS in

jw
friends

my husband who was raised as a witness & has recently considered getting baptised brought home a "personal study schedule".

this study schedule was given to him by an elder and clearly states at the top "do not post to any electronic service such as the internet" - that alone makes me wonder - why are they hiding it??.

anyway, the schedule breaks down every day, clearly states how much time you should be spending reading the bible & jw literature each day through the week.

Londo111

This is all part of the BITE mind control system.

In particular:
Behavior Control: *Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
* little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations)
Information Control:
*Keep members so busy they don't have time to think
*Extensive use of group generated information and propaganda (Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.)

34

Need Advice About Letter to the IRS to Revoke the WTBTS' Tax Exempt Status

by ABibleStudent in

please review my letter to the irs commissioner to establish a process for revoking the tax exempt status of dangerous cults and write comments about how to improve it.. rough draft of letter.

mr. douglas h. shulman .

commissioner.

Londo111

And cults, like the Moonies, have friends in high places. It is because of lobbying like theirs that Steven Hassan couldn't get more governmental attention focused on this issue. Maybe you should ask his advice?

34

My critical thoughts about Paul

by I Want to Believe in

so this is an area of thought i had before even before i fully took the apostate plunge.

i started noticing that almost everything about the congregation pointed back to paul.. "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together.

" not jesus' words.

Londo111

Romans 16:1,2 says, "I recommend to YOU Phoebe our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenchre·ae, that YOU may welcome her in [the] Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones, and that YOU may assist her in any matter where she may need YOU, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, yes, of me myself."

Phoebe is a Deacon and has high praise from Paul.

Again, to me, two passages in the first Epistle to Corinth contradict...for women did pray and prophesy in Corinth (albiet with a head covering). See 1 Cor 11:5,11,13. Therefore, how in 1 Cor 14:34-35 are they told not to speak?

The earliest manuscripts we have is two centuries from whence they were penned. Who knows what Clement and others in the growing hierarchy tweaked in the Epistles or Gospels? For 39 years I was told the New Testament, indeed the Old Testament, were transmitted unerringly from those singular authors who penned them. Now that I am lifted from the burden of that belief, I find it refreshing.

34

My critical thoughts about Paul

by I Want to Believe in

so this is an area of thought i had before even before i fully took the apostate plunge.

i started noticing that almost everything about the congregation pointed back to paul.. "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together.

" not jesus' words.

Londo111

There are some anomalous passages in the Epistles that do indeed raise eyebrows, but from Paul we have the concepts of Grace and Conscience and Christian Freedom. He often battled those who were trying to use legalism and trying to enslave other's consciences to their rigid views. Even in the case of incest in Corinthian congregation, I doubt he would have approved of shunning the way the Society practices it.

34

My critical thoughts about Paul

by I Want to Believe in

so this is an area of thought i had before even before i fully took the apostate plunge.

i started noticing that almost everything about the congregation pointed back to paul.. "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together.

" not jesus' words.

Londo111

I Want to Believe,

In regard to points 1 and 3, have you read In Search of Christian Freedom? I believe many end up understanding them through the Society's lense because of being in the organization for a long time.

As far as part 2, that has always confused me, but then Paul did talked about women who prayed and prophesied, and he did call one lady a Deacon. Sometimes I wonder if Paul's words have come to us uncorrupted, or whether some in the 2nd or 3rd centuries who were misogynistic here and there added things to keep women "quiet" in the "church".