My critical thoughts about Paul

by I Want to Believe 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • I Want to Believe
    I Want to Believe

    So this is an area of thought I had before even before I fully took the apostate plunge. I started noticing that almost everything about the congregation pointed back to Paul.

    "Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together." Not Jesus' words.

    "I do not permit a woman to teach." Did Jesus say that?

    Qualifications for elder and servants (and thus the need for an organization): all from Paul.

    In fact, while the last study Watchtower mentioned the importance of the Apostles in forming the congregations, very, very little of their influence is seen in the Bible, or history for that matter. But here comes Paul, fresh from being a rule-loving Pharisee to straighten everyone out and get things organized, and from him come basically all the rules and minutiae of organized religion that divide would-be brothers and sisters from each other and have been fought over for 2000 years. The winners get to write history, after all, and Paul's version of Christianity won out. All from the letters of one man, one who was not a chosen apostle. He hadn't even seen Jesus until his self-reported encounter that those with him couldn't see (convenient). The only collaborator of Paul's conversion is Ananias, who Paul says has "a good report with all the Jews." Hmm. Doesn't seem too much of a stretch that he'd help out a man taught by the well-respected Gamaliel.

    At this point, some conspiracy theorists would say Saul/Paul was an infiltrator, even the first apostate who drew the infant Christian congregation away from the apostles and Christ's true message. Maybe. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he was a strong personality who was used to rules and ceremony, and in his zealous imperfection set about organizing the congregations, contrary, perhaps, to Jesus' intent.

    This theory crystalized even more for me when I read JWFacts' excellent essay on "organizations," which in turn makes more sense if you consider that Paul, the chief organizer, was misguided in his efforts.

    I better stop there before I get a reputation for crazy ranting. I was actually surprised, once I started researching religions, that Paul doesn't get critically viewed as much as I thought he would/should. I'm still trying to figure him out; I'd like to hear what others think.

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    I started thinking this way about Paul in the 80's. Critical thinking is good. I'm glad you're here.

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    Welcome lol. Researching the Greek scriptures is like going into Topsy-Turvy land. Burton L. Mack's books are good, and there is some good reading here, too: http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/jhcjp.htm

    Paul was the mover & shaker of the 1st century, and according to most Bible scholars, his letters actually predate the Gospels.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    He does come off as a misogynist with an ego the size of Donald Trump - very off-character compared to the other new testament apostles.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    I Want to Believe,

    In regard to points 1 and 3, have you read In Search of Christian Freedom? I believe many end up understanding them through the Society's lense because of being in the organization for a long time.

    As far as part 2, that has always confused me, but then Paul did talked about women who prayed and prophesied, and he did call one lady a Deacon. Sometimes I wonder if Paul's words have come to us uncorrupted, or whether some in the 2nd or 3rd centuries who were misogynistic here and there added things to keep women "quiet" in the "church".

  • dog is god
    dog is god

    I think Paul was the very first of a long line of hijackers.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    As far as part 2, that has always confused me, but then Paul did talked about women who prayed and prophesied, and he did call one lady a Deacon. Sometimes I wonder if Paul's words have come to us uncorrupted, or whether some in the 2nd or 3rd centuries who were misogynistic here and there added things to keep women "quiet" in the "church".

    Some of it almost reads as if there were more than one author. Nobody knows where it really came from.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Paul "hadn't even seen Jesus until his self-reported encounter that those with him couldn't see (convenient)."

    Ah, so here we have the origin of the INVISIBILITY card so frequently played to this very day by JWs:

    Jesus of Brooklyn, invisibly present since 1914!

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    Hi IWTB,

    I see what you mean. You may find the following from WIKI interesting, "Pauline Christianity is a term used to refer to the Christianity associated with the beliefs and doctrines espoused by Paul of Tarsus through his writings ."

    A few weeks ago when the country (USA) was wild with Tebowing, I made critical mention of how his public display of his faith turns off many people, including me, and what part of Jesus' words about going into a closet and praying does Tebow and people like him not get? Yes, she says, but Paul's words say yada yada yada. Then I say, so the founder of Christianity is trumped by one of his followers? End of discussion.

    How about the shunning that JWs and other fundies use? All Pauline based, "not even eating with such a person". Years ago when I asked one of the other elders why we don't shun all DFd ones, including family members (recall, Paul makes no distinction), he made the point that it would be going a bit too far -- that is, to shun family. I then said, so Watchtower trumps writings in the Bible? The discussion changed.

    We could go on and on.

    Len

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Yeah, I tend to agree. It seems that much of what is considered "Christianity" is more an invention of Paul than Jesus.

    As we know, Jesus (apparently) never wrote anything down. If he did, none of it survived. So in reality, Christianity is a religion based on hearsay and third-party interpretations.

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