Posts by truth_b

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

truth_b_known

I believe what Slim Boy Fat is referring to is called "qualia".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

With qualia we see the difference between conceptual knowledge and experiential knowledge.

I like this explanation -

Qualia is the term to used describe actual subjective experience and sensation, as opposed to mere knowledge and information.

The concept is best described by Frank Jackson's color blind scientist thought experiment: A scientist knows everything there is to know about the color red from physics, optics and neuroscience, but is color blind, and so she doesn't know what it's actually like to see the color red. If we then somehow repaired her vision so that she can now see colors, and let her see the color red, she would learn something new about red that she didn't know before, despite all of her previous knowledge about the physics and biology involved. This additional knowledge she gains is the qualia of seeing red.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

truth_b_known

So as I am following -

God must be proved through a repeatable experiment or
God must communicate with all mankind in a way that everyone experiences simultaneously.

If God does not it is either because -

God is a jerk for making us and not talking to us as well as leaving us to what we see around us (I am guess war, famine, crime, etc.) or
God does not exist.

(footnote - I am using "God" simply as the term for whatever may or may not have caused everything to be set in motion and not a specific deity.)

I can understand how a person would come to such conclusions if their paradigm of what everything is comes solely from a Western, Judeo-Christian culture. That is why I always find it interesting that such debates are not whether or not there is a god, but whether or not the God of the Bible exists.

There is a famous saying in India - "The only atheists here are the people who went to Catholic school."

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

truth_b_known

The claim that God doesn't communicate with humans is based on the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever.

What do we mean by "communicate"?

Notsure what sort of evidence would you accept?

Great question. I do not mean to be inflammatory, but are we talking some sort of two witness rule or three witness rule?

16

Even if God exists…….

by snare&racket in

i’m an atheist.. let’s assume i am wrong, i am willing to be.. let’s give people a god, let’s even make him the god of the bible…... does he deserve to be worshipped and obeyed?

if so, why does his abhorrent actions not morally make you question allegiance to him?.

does his authority alone allow him to murder and drown and order war, to throw people into a lake of fire?.

truth_b_known

Let’s give people a God, let’s even make him the God of the bible…..

You ask the question, "Even if God exists why worship him?" However, you quickly turn it into "the God of the bible."

When it comes to that question, we have to be more specific. There are many gods listed in the Bible and we find out about more as time goes on. Is it El, YHWY, the Lord, or even Jesus (if you grant him divinity).

I have come across some interesting information over the past couple of years where it shows the Israelites had several gods during the course of their history. There are even those who suggest that in the Gospels Jesus rebukes the religious leaders for worshipping YHWY when their true god is this "Lord".

I get your argument about why any would ever want to willingly worship the god of the Old Testament. Keep in mind, part of that is because morality is dynamic and not static. Religious belief is part of culture. Culture is a learned experience. Over the centuries it begins to look like "that's the way it has always been." This is not true.

So, I think another way to look at it is "How could anyone in our current culture and in this modern day and age choose to worship the brutal god of the old testament?" I think the reason is simpler than we think - we were raised to believe it.

True, some people choose to accept this blood-thirsty tyrant as their god later in life. I have no idea why other than the shared experience. People find something to belong to and want to share in the emotional experience the others in the group have.

I get wanting to follow the tenets of Jesus. However, Christianity tends to say "You have to accept the YHWY if you want the Jesus." That is hard to come to terms with.

I also see Vidqun's point. Who am I with my first world, suburbanite morals to tell God what is right and wrong?

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

truth_b_known

From the Watchtower side of things I ask - "Why do 144,000 humans have to give up their humanity to undo Satan's dirty work if Jehovah purposed humans to live on earth forever?"

From the other side of the Christianity coin I ask - "If God's original purpose was for humans to live forever on earth why do the faithful now go to heaven?"

Either way Satan foiled God's purpose for mankind to live on earth forever.

9

The Impact of Less "Appointed Men" & This Site Thank You

by JWTom in

with the passing minimus, we all may think about what this site has meant to us personally.

i lurked here for quite a few years before becoming active as a poster....still i consider what i have done to be very slight compared with others.

may minimus rest in peace and a big thank you to all that have helped me here over the years.. a new member that is a pimo elder (reservations) posted here about how he could wake people up while remaining a pimo elder.

truth_b_known

I agree with JW To; If you are a PIMO Elder/Ministerial Servant/Pioneer and want to help others wake up, but cannot leave at this time, the best thing you could do is quit doing anything that is not required.

Stop being an Elder.
Stop being a Ministerial Servant.
Stop being a Pioneer.
Stop giving talks.
Stop answering.
Start enjoying life.

Show up to the meetings and sit their like a bump on a log with a smile on your face. Isn't this the best life ever? If the elders ask you anything just answer with a big smile, "I believe whatever Jehovah's organization tells me. It is the best life ever!"

Those who want to wake up will get it.

31

Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

by Disillusioned JW in

is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

truth_b_known

"Left-minded" or "left-brained" is referring to that part of human though the operates in the realm of the concept of the physical universe. If it can me measured, if it can be weighed, if it can labeled that portion of human thinking accepts it. Left-brained thinking also tends to be dismissive of right-brained thinking.

Right-brained thinking is that which we recognize, but cannot put into words of put our finger on whether literally or figuratively. It is also the realm of intuition. That is why persons who have certain experiences of a divine nature have trouble putting that experience in words.

As far as the Failed Hypothesis, I totally agree -

Stenger believes we have more than enough evidence of absence of the Judeo-Christian God. He adds that many arguments for God that were once compelling are now weak or irrelevant in light of modern scientific understanding. Stenger does not think we should be dogmatic about disbelief in God, but says the evidence is overwhelmingly against the belief.

Any evidence/experience one can obtain about God will not line up with the concepts of the Bible.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

truth_b_known

Since gods were inherently imagined by man, the answer to why those gods don't answer or intervene in are lives is because the gods are really us.

Harvey,

You are an Enlightened person. Well said!

31

Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

by Disillusioned JW in

is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

truth_b_known

Some people make the claim that God, a god, or some spirit being has communicated to them or to ancient people, but they have no proof of their claim.

What proof do you want? It must be measured, weighed, and labeled to prove existence is left-minded thinking, which is the very road block one must get past to find the proof you seek.

Furthermore, for someone to say "There is no God. There has to be some logical/scientific explanation for all things," is in itself a proof that such belief is based on faith. Faith is the cornerstone of religion.

Rather, to state "I have found no evidence of God. I will change my belief in God when I find evidence that suggest that," is a statement of open mindedness. It shows a person is capable of learning and growing. Of course, if you're not looking for proof how would you ever find it?

How does one prove God spoke to them? Isn't that a personal experience? I suppose that is the point. People are looking for some sort of intellectual explanation which is impossible. The only way to find it is through personal experience.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

truth_b_known

"If God exists why isn't he talking to us?" is basically the question.

Once again it is important to set up some definitions or come up with an agreed terminology as a foundation.

When someone says "God" does an old white man with white hair and a white beard sitting on a gold throne on a cloud in some other realm of existence come to mind? Is it the YHWY of the Old Testament as far as the definition go? If "yes," I can see why a person would say "There's no God."

Here is where I am - Is there a God, yes or no? Answer - It doesn't matter.

As long as one lives life by these 3 principles - "This is mine. This I am. This is me." there is no point in even trying to answer it.

Is there a God? Is there life after death? How did the universe begin or does it even have a beginning? None of these questions matter as long as we propagate "This is mine, this I am, this is me."

Once you get past that the other questions will become answered.

truth_b_known

Posts by truth_b_known