Theredeemer

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Posts by Theredeemer

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  53

  2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

  if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

  question #2:.

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  Theredeemer

  As for experiencing Christ,

  It is quite hard to argue with personal experiences because they are personal. Tammy experienced Tammy's experience. That was what I was trying to say earlier.
  I never ever had any experiences of a presence of God, and that is certainly important in my conviction that there is no personal God; I mean if I had such experiences my opinion about that would clearly be different. It really depends on what these experiences are. I do not think one can make a general statement about all these experiences because they are often quite different.

  The problem I find with the religious/Christ experience interpretation of these personal experiences is that they rely on pure presumption. What we can take from them without such presumption is that people can have such experiences while, at the same time, not presuming they’re anything other than an entirely natural event with a scientific explanation . We see them reported across cultures and religions, which poses some difficult questions for the Christian. But the bottom line is that leaping to a spiritual/ Christ experience explanation, without even addressing the unsupernatural possibilities, is, again, pure presumption. Researching other religions should offer a good deal of insight on this phenomenon. It’s certainly nothing new, and it’s certainly not exclusive to Christians.
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  53

  2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

  if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

  question #2:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Theredeemer

  I said :"For example, if a manual to build a tv stand has quite a few misprints, it is still useful to keep it because you can figure out the kinks on your own. Although its unreliable to put your complete faith in the manual, you can still find it usefull if there is nothing else provided to help you out.

  And its for that reason that many hold onto the bible despite its unreliableness, simply because they feel its still usefull and there is nothing else to build thier faith upon."

  You said:

  "That is what we DO have... though being errant does not make something useless or totally wrong." That is my case in point with how people view the bible. You excuse the glaring errors it contains that you normally would not make for any other book like say, oh , the Quran.

  The fact is, your God did a crappy job preserving the bible. He made sure that after only a few decades the only accounts of these events in existence are copies of copies of copies which will be verifiably altered and added to in historically and theologically significant ways from generation to generation, sect to sect. He did not preserve the original copies of these accounts, he did not protect them from revision, did not set in place any mechanism of protecting them from being interpreted in hundreds upon hundreds of ways most of which being heretical and therefore punishable.

  But that was his plan right Tammy? To be really confusing? What is even worse is that, when all is said and done, you demand that he be praised for his rediculous plan.

  Is he the god of the bible? Is he perfect and if so, shouldn’t his word be perfect? But you do not care that there are contradictions, historical inaccuracies and anachronisms in the bible so debating is futile.
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  53

  2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

  if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

  question #2:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Theredeemer

  Case in point Tec. You said "You can learn what is what by experience... and testing." You can only learn from experiencing things first hand and testing things yourself. You cannot possibly test or experience things another person wrote unless you go and experience the exact same thing. You can, maybe, learn from someone elses experience, but usually you learn best from experienceing the event yourself; hence why so many make the same mistakes as others.

  For example, I cant possibly say "Dr. Pepper is the best soft drink!" just because they said it in a commercial. I can say it is because I've tasted it. This still doesnt prove that it is the best. Even if they did a survey, the same population who took the survey could never represnt 7 billion people.

  What you have experienced from reading the bible, having God "speak" to you or any religious experience can never prove the validity that God, or at least "your God", exists or is the best. Your experiences only can prove one thing, if anything, God really only cares about TEC! But frankly, your experiences prove nothing to me, and neither does some strewn together accounts written thousands of years ago, whether they be actual first hand accounts or not.

  Thus, the bible's usefullness, which is in very small areas, does not make it necessary to posses nor excuse the glaring errors it contains. In that case, Harry Potter, should be considered worthy of Biblical respect because it promotes acceptance and promotes children to gain confidence.

  Right now, where there is a camera in everyones pocket, storage devices that can save millions of bits of information and where everyone keepsa public diary, is a perfect time for god to show himself with miracles and proof of his existance. But so far...nothing. Right now we can actually keep detailed accounts of his power and wisdom. He can speak to anyone and ask them to type it out and save it so the origanl transcriber can have a hard copy so no one can ever change it and....nothing. Miracles can be recorded, uploaded to you tube and he could choose a prophet that can reach billions in less than a second with video evidence and....nothing.

  Sounds like God picked the wrong time to disappear.
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  53

  2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

  if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

  question #2:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Theredeemer

  Personally I would much rather believe that Star Wars was a factual account and the Force guides our every move rather than whats written in most Holy Books.
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  53

  2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

  if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

  question #2:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Theredeemer

  1. If there was no Holy Book (Bible or any other) we would no nothing about a magic man in the sky. However, some wise and cunning businessman would eventually claim to know all the answers.

  2. First off, I do not believe in god. I do think, however, there is a difference in your analogy. For example, if a manual to build a tv stand has quite a few misprints, it is still useful to keep it because you can figure out the kinks on your own. Although its unreliable to put your complete faith in the manual, you can still find it usefull if there is nothing else provided to help you out.

  And its for that reason that many hold onto the bible despite its unreliableness, simply because they feel its still usefull and there is nothing else to build thier faith upon.

  The sad thing is with the example of the manual, how many times have we put something together WITHOUT USING THE MANUAL? In my case, all the time. Although I've had to go back and redo it or take it apart again to fix an error I've made, I take a certain pride in not using the help provided. And how many times have we looked at the manual or instructions and truly thought it was a magical code in a different language?

  The same can be said about the bible, although many find it usefull, in the end, if they would just open thier eyes and reflect on thier lives, they would see that it was THEM who ultimately put their lives together, for good or for bad. I truly believe that people would have so much more confidence and love for themselves if they stop giving credit to an imaginary being or a Holy Book and give credit to themselves, like when you put together a TV stand!
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  406

  Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.

  thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.

  i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.

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  Theredeemer

  I went through a period last year when i started going back. Alot, however, had to do with the fact that my wife was still going. I thought "I'm gonna give it one more chance". I really really tried to do it. Of course, most of the meetings I would spend my time in the bathroom looking at this site or sports. I was there physically but mentally I could have never have returned. I cant count the times I would squirm in my seat at the complete crap being spewed! There was not one WT family study where I wouldnt point out the scriptures they misquoted or spliced together to fit thier teachings. My wife eventually saw the BS on her own with the FDS change and we were out. THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL WE ARE EVER GOING BACK!!! When you participate in sites like this, discussions that take place here, do personal research on things and really question JW doctrine, relion or God in general; It's all over and there is no going back.

  I compare it to this: Imagine if we found out that our favorite restraunt used rotten food, the employees never washed their hands and spit in everyones food. If we found all this out and it was a fact because we investigated it and there was footage of it happening, it wouldnt matter how good the food looked and tasted, it would never be the same!! We would literally have to pretend that we didnt know all that info and ignore every rational thought we had to even set foot in that place again, let alone eat the food!!
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  16

  John Lennon: Imagine.....

  by confusedandalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's no heaven...... it's easy if you try.... i am not a huge fan of the beatles, not a fan of john lennon really either.

  however, this song is one that i think most people tend to like for its airy feel and sentiment.

  the funniest thing to me is how the opening 9 words of this song really really really make one think about belief.. honestly for one second trying to imagine there is no heaven, it is easy if you try.

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  Theredeemer

  He also said "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"
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  120

  In general, the people on this forum have a poor outlook spiritually speaking.

  by Stand for Pure Worship in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i waz reading the august 15 wt study article, elisha saw fiery chariots, do you?

  and it made me think about this forum.

  if you remember, syria was hunting god's prophet, elisha.

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  Theredeemer

  SFPW: Your posts leave me wishing I was as close to god as you are! The way you remeber all those scriptures and watchtower quotes is nothing short of breath taking! Every one here should takes notes on your eloquence and how you manage to outsmart us at every step! Keep up the good work!!
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  120

  In general, the people on this forum have a poor outlook spiritually speaking.

  by Stand for Pure Worship in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i waz reading the august 15 wt study article, elisha saw fiery chariots, do you?

  and it made me think about this forum.

  if you remember, syria was hunting god's prophet, elisha.

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  2. 
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  Theredeemer

  Hey SFPW, save it for your number 4 talks. You are not proving anything to anyone and its not like we havent heard this crap thousands of times before. Some of us may have even given 45 minute talks on it. The fact you are even here, whether trolling or spiritually "preparing for battle", shows you are bored and really have nothing better to do than to post your condescending rants. You obviously are not a servant or elder because you would be too busy, scared or could care less about an apostate's spriritual condition. You probably envy those who get to speak on sunday and often think "I could do much better than that Brother". So you come here to hone your "skills" and show off your spirituall "knowledge". NOBODY CARES JUST LIKE AT THE KINGDOM HALL!! Get over yourself and move on. We come here to participate in discussions, share opinions, vent and to share stories. BUT IF YOU COME HERE TO TEACH, SPECIALLY IN A CONDESCENDING TONE PLEASE LEAVE!!

  In the end of the day, NOBODY CARES!!
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  72

  New Understanding of this Generation

  by pronomono in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  another tidbit of information about this generation from the 1/15/2014 study edition under "let your kingdom come - but when?".

  they've changed it again.. this generation will not pass away14-16.

  what is a third reason for believing that gods kingdom will come soon?.

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  Theredeemer

  They literally can print anything they want and nobody really cares! They could print a picture of two dogs humping and slap a prophecy to it and the R & F would believe it. Maybe Outlaw can load one up for us as an example. haha