Posts by Theredeemer

111

How to prove God does not exist?

by UBM101 in

many times (almost all the time) atheists asking for proof of god's existence from those who believe that god exists.

perhaps at times they should prove he doesn't exist.

any taker?

Theredeemer

What is evil? What is love? What is good? What is bad?

The problem with these words is they are all the same, the issue is point of view.

Take Jesus' death for example.

God allowed his son to be handed over to a tribune, falsely convicted of a crime, physically and verbally assaulted, tortured and ultimately put to death. All this to vindicate his name and balance the scales of justice in order for the rest of mankind to have a chance to live forever. All the while he had the power snap his finger, just erase sin from the record and end all the madness.

If any other father in the world allowed their son to go through all this just to prove a point he would be considered bad, evil and unloving.

But since it was GOD, the point of view changes; he is good, loving and just.

Socrates posed the question: Is something holy because God deemed it holy or was it holy to begin with and God simply just chose it because it is holy?

If God can deemed anything, even something that can be considered evil, holy; this is arbitrary. No reason or wisdom is required.

If something is already holy and God chooses it based on its holiness, then he is not in control and he is subject to other standards just like us.

The bible proves that God is arbitrary. He can deem something very evil, holy.

If there is a god, he has no wisdom or reason behind his actions. His sense of justice is arbitrary and, so far, all his plans have gotten us nothing.

42

Do You Think Many Engaged JW Couples Fooled Around B4 Marriage?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i was an elder, i had a few couples approach me to confess that they either played around or went all the way.. i suspect there were many more that did not admit to it, though..

Theredeemer

Also, very guilty of it. Still got named a servant. So much for holy spirit eh?

187

The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.

by Stand for Pure Worship in

jw
friends

an average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.

on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?

not exactly working out for you guys.

Theredeemer

My agenda in life is to be happy. I come here because I get to discuss topics, meet people who go through many of the things I've gone through and sometimes vent. Although my opinions and views differ form many here we can discus without fear. Ive participated in discussions and I've presented my views. However, I have not come here to teach, I have not come here to change anyone's views and I dont judge others for thier personal opinions. All I ask from anyone is to try understand understand my views, not to accept them

You, SFTW, however come here to point your finger as if you were asked to.

Why?

You are participating in exactly the kind of things your religion warns against. Fruitless discussions. Did not the apsotle Paul warn you not to do this? Does not your Governing Body tell you to stay away?

But you cant can you? The high you get from arguing is too great isnt it? The feeling of one upping people, having sly comebacks and using scriptures to display your self righteousness is just too addicting right? Clearly you have showed everyone what your agenda is.

Face it SFTW, you are not the first, you are not the last and your definitely not the best.

187

The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.

by Stand for Pure Worship in

jw
friends

an average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.

on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?

not exactly working out for you guys.

Theredeemer

but I have to question even if it's true that something like 2/3 of those born into the Christian congregation end up leaving at some point, how many end up coming back?

Was that a retorical question? Or were you going to say something totally bogus like " all the time" or "most of them"with no backing? Who cares if they come back?! Obviously many of us here are not going back.

You folks like to twist people's words to suit your own agendas.

And the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has never done that, right?

Tell me SFTW, what is our agenda?

187

The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.

by Stand for Pure Worship in

jw
friends

an average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.

on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?

not exactly working out for you guys.

Theredeemer

Wow SFPW, very diverse.

You ignored to mention that 14 % of JWs are divorced, highest among all faiths! So much for Jehavah hates a divorce.

Also, 19% have less than a high school education. Hmm second highest. I wonder why??

53

2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

by Terry in

please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

question #2:.

Theredeemer

Tammy, you admit that the bible has errors.

So let me ask you two questions,

What parts of the bible do you consider to be in error?

Is it possible that many of the parts or, at least some, that deal with Jesus may be in error? Remember, I said possible..

53

2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

by Terry in

please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

question #2:.

Theredeemer

But Tammy, we are not talking about Christ. We are talking about the validity or need for an error filled, inconsistant holy book.

Terry asked:

If whatever Holy Book(s) turned out to be unreliable for any reason (or at least hit-and-miss) would that be any different from being totally wrong?

You argue that it is not God's fault it is error filled but is it not.

For example: If I was a manager at a bank and I chose an ex-thief to work the teller booth and he was later caught stealing, ultimately, upon whom would the blame fall upon; me or the thief? Although the thief would be prosecuted for the crime I would probably be fired for hiring an ex- thief.

But that is untrue. I get that many feel there is nothing else to build their faith upon... but the only one we are meant to build our faith upon... is Christ.

Says who? Again, Terry asked about Holy Books, not just the Judeo-Christian bible. You are limiting everyones faith to Christ just because you have discerned him to be the one and only. What about Alah, Krishna, Vishnu, Budha and the countless other Gods?

That was NOT His plan... and if you listened even just to the words we do have written from Christ... you might see that... and go to HIM who DOES speak, and put your faith in Christ - the Spirit and the Truth.

So the bible, written in its imperfection, is not in God's plan...except the parts about Jesus. How convinient!

Why would God or Christ NEED to rely upon a book that can be altered or mistaken... when they are Spirit and can communicate with those who would hear them in that way?

But thats exactly what , apparently, he tried to do. Obviously, God saw the need for his word to be written down. Only it was done very very poorly. If you want to blame it on human error or the recording methods of the time, wouldnt he, being all knowing, know that in the future things could have been recorded much better? Instead he chose some idiots to do it.

35

Are JW's scared of visiting apostate websites?

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

i believe they are.

i think it's their biggest fear besides dying at armageddon.. there's a saying that anyone who reads ray franz's books is never the same again.

i think many jw's secretly know that there is information out there that would almost certaintly seriously damage their truth in their religion, and they are terrified of it.. they would rather keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand than even take a peek at critical information that might begin a slippery slope leading to the collapse of their unique worldview.. jw doing their version of the islam prayer:.

Theredeemer

So emeth, you say you were a "guest" at Satan's table. Why were you even invited? I say you showed up and crashed our party!!

"This is my final statement in this topic since reading or discussing more is just a waste of my time."

5 hours later posts his "proof" that he owns Franz's book. Sounds like you are addicted to wasting time.

53

2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

by Terry in

please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

question #2:.

Theredeemer

What kind of books do most people put their entire faith, obedience and trust upon, although they are filled with lies, contradictions, mysogenistic teachings, rascism, historical inaccuracies and unscientific explanations?

53

2 SURVEY QUESTIONS

by Terry in

please answer this question thoughtfully.. question #1:.

if there were no holy book in existence--what would you or anybody else know about god and how would you know it?.

question #2:.

Theredeemer

Many say, "Well, maybe you have experienced Christ but you ignored it was him; or You failed to see it was Christ." Which, if you want, fine lets pretend that actually happened.

But lets take this as an example,

My wife and I tried for a baby through invitro. It was one of the most trying, stressfull and difficult time in our lives. It was painful, it was very very expensive and sadly, ultimately it did not work.

However, we made it through. We were united, we grew closer and we learned how strong as a couple we are. We are determined to keep trying.

Everyone else, our friends, family and coworkers promised us prayers and phrases like "God's will come through" "he will give you a baby".

Not once did we pray. Not once did we ask God for help to overcome all that was happenning. When it didnt work and we we so sad, we picked ourselves up and moved forward.

This is my point about experiences and self love.

Would it be healthier to attribute our endurance and preserverance to my wife and I, our strength as a couple, our love and devotion to one another or God, who didnt even answer everyone elses prayers to grant us a baby?

Thats why I said: "The sad thing is with the example of the manual, how many times have we put something together WITHOUT USING THE MANUAL? In my case, all the time. Although I've had to go back and redo it or take it apart again to fix an error I've made, I take a certain pride in not using the help provided. And how many times have we looked at the manual or instructions and truly thought it was a magical code in a different language?

The same can be said about the bible, although many find it usefull, in the end, if they would just open thier eyes and reflect on thier lives, they would see that it was THEM who ultimately put their lives together, for good or for bad. I truly believe that people would have so much more confidence and love for themselves if they stop giving credit to an imaginary being or a Holy Book and give credit to themselves, like when you put together a TV stand!"