http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/criticism_of_jehovah's_witnesses.
a nice read, anyone could benefit from.
can someone update it regarding "mentally disease", maybe cedars / others can help update.
At least on Wikipedia you can generally go to the bottom of an article's page to find those "standard reference works, articles written by recognized experts, and books produced by respected publishers."
Try finding sources in most WT publications! That was one thing that always REALLY bothered me. Why don't they properly CITE THEIR SOURCES? This is standard editorial practice. By 9th grade most High School Teachers won't even accept a paper if a student fails to properly CITE THEIR SOURCES!
hi blondie i really like most of your posts, and the i've come accross your post regarding fading, when you post a very nice link written many years ago.
well my request is, can you or someone compile these good posts in these forum, because i have read so many good posts here but somehow they are lost because they are burried with newer post.
maybe someone could do a blog like site featuring all the good post, copying the good post only, and putting the link at the end so readers can go for more reading/comments, i know doing this requires a lot of time and organizing.
Lady Lee: "Simon sayd he will install a great search engine with the new update of the forum."
Any word on the status of the forum update???
islam more lenient on apostates than the wtbts!.
this morning i came across this thought provoking comment in a cnn news article:.
harris zafar, national spokesperson of the ahmadiyya muslim community usa, does not mince words on the subject, stating in a huffington post opinion piece that "islam prescribes absolutely no punishment for apostasy.".
Islam More Lenient on Apostates than the WTBTS!
This morning I came across this thought provoking comment in a CNN news article:
Harris Zafar, national spokesperson of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA, does not mince words on the subject, stating in a Huffington Post opinion piece that "Islam prescribes absolutely no punishment for apostasy."
"Chapter two of the Holy Quran emphatically denies this possibility, stating 'there shall be no compulsion in religion," writes Zafar. "This is an unambiguous declaration protecting freedom of conscience and choice." - Emphasis added
It's interesting to compare this to the WTBTS' official treatment of apostates. Imagine, just imagine, if the WTBTS prescribed "absolutely no punishment for apostasy"! Wow, how different things would be ...
Of course, the truth is that the WT labels are lot of different things as "apostasy" because of their preferred punishment, rather than the other way around. They WANT to punish and shun anyone that dissents or shows any desire to be free of their restrictions of "conscience and choice". IT'S A CONTROL THING!
Since apostates can be shunned, they label anyone an "apostate" that they want to shun. But if they truly practiced "freedom of choice" with "absolutely no punishment for apostasy" then there really wouldn't be much motivation to label anyone an apostate except perhaps those few that really fit the bill. How many would that be? Not many I'd guess!
That being said, there are of course still many hard-core "True Believer" muslims that see things differently than Mr. Zafar, as the particular issue that prompted the CNN article make obvious.
Some things to think about, no?
when you had to deal judicially with cases of apostasy, did it ever pique yout curiousity?
did anyone ever tell you about something they had learned that shocked you and made you investigate for yourself?.
I was on many Judicial Committees in my almost 20 years as an elder, but never one for apostasy. Most were for drug use or sexual matters.
15 years or so ago, I did have a fellow elder that resigned and would never say exactly why? I always figured it was one of two things, he had an affair and wouldn't confess but still didn't want to continue as a hypocrite or that he had lost faith in the WTBTS. I never did find out what was up with him!
looked into hubby's bag and found this paper.
they want to know person to contact in case of emergency , name of person in case of a disaster or evacuation-where would you like to go?
those who might be traveling with you (name, relationship.
Here in Earthquake Country, aka Southern California, this stuff just makes sense to have around.
Armageddon's got nothing to do with it!
.
the longer you spend away from the organisation, the more utterly cringeworthy this term sounds when you hear it.. like they are all one big happy family.
what jw phrases make you cringe?.
Well as soon as a I hit a "low point" in my life I found out how TRUE my supposed "friends" and "brothers" turned out to be, not very!
Two and 1/2 years ago I was DF'd and have never seen a hint of help ever since. It's been 3 September's come and gone and--even though-- I"ve made certain they local elders know where I live--not one elder has ever come by to see how I'm doing and if I could use any spiritual encouragement.
BTW, I attended meetings fairly regularly for the first year and 1/2 I was disfellowshipped with thoughts of possibly returning. I guess it's common for abused people to keep returning to their abuser. But finally, after getting absolutely NOTHING back from ABSOLUTELY anyone (with one very small exception*) it became abundantly clear that I was not wanted.
When it hit me, it hit me hard:
Q: Why exactly did I want to go back anyway? I didn't agree with so many things by that point?
A: I wanted to be able to talk to my family and friends again
I finally concluded it just wasn't worth it. Also, why would I go back to pretending to be someone I wasn't just so I could be with people that apparently either didn't really care about me or didn't care enough to stand up for what is right!
I especially miss my sons, but what can I do. However, I have so many new friends now, real people that like me for who I really am and not for who I pretended to be when I was a "good little elder". Not everything is perfect, but honestly I am so much happier now. If only I could find a way to reach out to my two sons ...
Daniel
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* The "one small exception" was at a WT one Sunday, an elder that thought I didn't have a WT (I did) gave me a copy. He managed to smile at me when he gave it to me. On the other hand, about a year after I was DF'd I attended a meeting at a local hall, but not the one I used to attend. There an elder walked up to introduce himself but when he recognized me he said, "Oh, it's you!" and turned around and walked away.
I love the odd time signature and metrical permutations of Mars!
i have just started my new course to be a qualified counsellor.
naturaly i am studying this because of my own background and now i want to help others who have had similar strains on their lives.. i know the pressure that the jw organisation puts on its members, so i was wondering, if you dont mind saying so of course, did any of you attend counselling sessions due to the pressures and problems that the jw life brought along?.
i can imagine that the majority of my old congregation (myself, my dad and my brother included) would need some form of counselling or medication in order to remain sane.
@ wha happened? - That sounds like your talking about Larry Onoda.
When my wife and I separated we interviewed him to help our then 15 year old son deal with the separation. After the interview, we both--all though by this time in our marriage we couldn't agree on much--agreed that he was NOT the person to help us or anybody. He was truly scary, I mean seriously messed up!!! My ex-wife, a born-in True Believer to this day, preferred a "worldly" psychologist over that wanker.
What a basket-case HE is. The only thing that keeps him in business is the JWs that will go to him "because he's a brother!" ... as in, Oh Brother!
how many of you have ever visited one of the branch offices or world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?
i was an active witness for nearly thirty years and was associated with the cult for more than thirty-five before finally walking away for good last year.
during all those years i never made a trip to brooklyn bethel.
This thread really got me thinking ...
I'm a music teacher. In 2006 I toured the Conn-Selmer factory in Indiana. They make clarinets, trumpets and trombones, flutes and related instruments there.
IT WAS SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING THAN SEEING HOW BOOKS AND MAGAZINES ARE PRINTED!!!
as many of us realize- times are hard for the wt society getting men to " reach out " for an elders or ministerial servants position as young men aged ( 18-35 ) are opting out of doing that due to the pressure they are under from the wt society leaders and just that it takes up too much valuable time where men could be earning a living and helping their own families instead of a thankless magazine printing corporation.
in the article " train others to reach out " in this issue it has lots of strange, controlling, yet perplexing statements which i'm sure will confuse jw men who are considering " reaching out ".
in fact, i think this article will discourage more than encourage them from doing so.. on pg.
Flipper really nailed it, but it got me thinking too. Here's my take on the thing:
Spiritual Qualities:
- Must have Unquestioning Obedience to the dictates of the GB as expressed in the WT, even when following it is contrary to your own self interest
- If and when those dictates change you will not question that either. It is "New Light" from Jehovah and it is wonderful in our eyes
- A willingness to do menial labor for free: sweep, mop, clean toliets, etc.
- Regular meeting attendance
- Regular presence in the "Door-to-door" ministry:
This means: Be out at least 3 out of every 4 weekends with a total of at least as many hours per month as either the "National Average" or the "Congregation Average"; whichever is higher is better, but it the local BOE is desperate they'll go with the lower number.
- Effectiveness in the ministry is not relevant. It is not even a consideration, in fact there is not even any attempt to measure it.
- When presenting meeting parts or answering questions at the WT "Study" it is imperative to quote the Society's current thoughts precisely. Paraphrasing is discouraged.
- You must "Reach Out" for privileges, but this must never be done in an "ambitious" way "seeking prominence" for yourself
Peace out, 00DAD
