Moxy

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Posts by Moxy

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  69

  Christmas Star = Satan?!

  by reagan_oconnor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was talking with my husband the other day about the jw's belief that the "christmas star" that guided the magi to christ was the doings of satan.

  he didn't believe me; this is what i found in the "my book of bible stories" (copied verbatim from cd-rom).

  who do you think made that new star to shine?

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  Moxy

  agree with zep. its this whole idea of such an inept cosmic struggle that i couldnt grasp. you're telling me that these two incredibly powerful forces are at war and the manifestations of this stupendous conflict are so trivial and ambiguous that we can't even say for sure if they're just coincidences or not? a whisper in a dream here, a flash in the sky that hardly anyone notices there. a soldier that cant find a typewriter, a leaflet that blows into someone's field of view, a call from a full-time job prospect just when someone starts to study, etc.

  in fact, since by WT theology, Jehovah's got Satan licked hands down, anything Satan does must be specifically allowed by Jehovah so i dont see how you can have a struggle at all. essentially jehovah is doing everything isnt he? isnt that why we justify the interchangableness of the terms 'jehovah does' and 'jehovah allows' so often in scripture when its required.

  the whole concept of being the centre of some universal power struggle just seems so primitive and silly...

  mox
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  38

  Why believe Revelation or Last Days?

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  those of us who used to be jws, i have a question for you: why would any of us think revelation has anything to say about the 21st century, or that we are in the last days period?.

  when we left the jws, we did so because of their false teachings.

  we saw through their faulty reasoning about why we are in the last days.

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  Moxy

  When you say it's gonna happen now
  well what exactly do you mean?
  See i've already waited too long
  and all my hope is gone.

  'How Soon is Now' by the Smiths

  mox
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  23

  Flood and bristlecone pine

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i mentioned that the dc in our area featured a talk where the speaker, as an illustration of endurance, mentioned methusaleh, the bristlecone pine that had lived for 4700+ years.

  i asked here for some possible explanations of this that allow for the wt flood dating.

  i had assumed that the standard response would be that the dating of the tree was wrong, that the rings had gotten doubled a few times or something.

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  Moxy

  thx for replies.

  well i mean something has to survive doesnt it? i assume that it is commonly understood that all the flora survived in seeds in the ground or something, frozen maybe? floating around? it seems such an obvious question: how did the eco-system survive? im sure that creationists have put forth different explanations, im just interested to know what the most plausible are - even if its really reaching. i would just think that if i had to try and justify my creationist beliefs, i would try like HELL to keep the lifespan of entire TREE SYSTEMS from overlapping with my supposed flood date. ANYTHING would be easier to explain than that. am i wrong??

  mox
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  9

  WTBTS considered as Apostate by Russians

  by waiting in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  howdy,.

  attention: this has happened in romania - not russia.

  duh - my fault.. i received this e-mail, and am passing on to y'all.

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  Moxy

  oof, the tranlsation and/or typing on these pages is really bad. dont bother trying to read it thru, its barely worth it. here's a list of there main objections to modern JWs, ways they've 'strayed' from the faith:

  1) reverting to the old understanding of Romand 13 'higher powers' - they think the rutherfordian interpretation is crystal-clear!

  2) 1975

  3) dancing. even privately dancing at home for recreation or exercise is just an utter horror for these guys.

  4) head coverings. not ENOUGH head coverings that is. and the women even wear PANTS for god's sake!

  5) jewellery

  6) widespread immorality, as evidenced by all the DFings.

  7) using guns for hunting

  8) changes to any of the old prophetic understandings

  9) mainstreaming of the awake, general interest articles. they seem to find an awake article about helicopters particularly offensive.

  10) dirty and indecent language in modern publications. not really sure what they're talking about here. nothing was more indecent than rutherford's attacks on religion.

  mox
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  13

  District Convention 2001?

  by Patriot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i bumped into an old m.s.

  who has not yet realized that i haven't gone to a meeting in about 20 months and asked me if i had my district convention yet.

  i said no that it was "coming up".. he then told that there was "new information" given and an "adjustment" in the way we do things.

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  Moxy

  if there is anything being called new, it is almost certainly the adjustments to the TMS. these are procedural changes tho and not really big ones at that. if you are really interested, i or someone could run thru them again for you.

  mox
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  9

  WTBTS considered as Apostate by Russians

  by waiting in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  howdy,.

  attention: this has happened in romania - not russia.

  duh - my fault.. i received this e-mail, and am passing on to y'all.

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  Moxy

  the correct link: http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/

  mox
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  3

  Gobal Flood and Fresh Water Fish - a Problem!

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was reading some material concerning the noachian global flood,.

  and the simple point was made concerning fresh water fish, they.

  would have quickly died in single water mass covering the entire.

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  Moxy

  i dont believe the WT has tried to address details like this. their stance seems to be that you're just being silly if you ask questions like this, nit-picking in details trying to find excuses not to believe. i think that's probably a pretty good stance since these arguments do tend to get pretty silly.

  Creationists (not WT) have addressed this issue, saying that there could've been pockets of fresh-water and salt-water, moderate, warm and cold to suit all the different inhabitants of the sea. they do not need to provide a mechanism since god could do anything he liked. its at that point that the arguments do seem to get kind of silly.

  i applaud the WT for avoiding these thorny issues - i think that's the best approach. they seem to be avoiding more and more. whereas they used to discuss frozen mammoths, water canopy, land bridges and so forth in previous publications, the most recent science-slanted publication, Creator, devotes 2 whole sentences to the flood, mentioning only the anthropological arguments, the strongest they have.

  mox
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  16

  1st door-to-door?

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the society tries very hard to present the idea that the door-to-door work was essentially the same in the 1st century as now.

  the rendering of 'door to door' in ac5:42 creates that impression.

  so do the talks that discuss the missionary efforts then in modern terms (eg "paul was making a return visit here on an interested one") philo's hospitality question earlier shows that we have all been a bit taken in by this.. wt covers like this (4/1/01) sure help too:.

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  Moxy

  the society tries very hard to present the idea that the door-to-door work was essentially the same in the 1st century as now. the rendering of 'door to door' in Ac5:42 creates that impression. so do the talks that discuss the missionary efforts then in modern terms (eg "Paul was making a return visit here on an interested one") Philo's hospitality question earlier shows that we have all been a bit taken in by this.

  WT covers like this (4/1/01) sure help too:

  isnt this quaint? naturally the disciples covered the huge areas they did just like this. did they even have doorways like this? you can just imagine the speech of the 'householder' that the cover is trying to convey. hes skeptical, "well, i.. don't.. know. im kinda busy right now, and besides, i have my own synagogue and i'm happy with that" you're not like that, are you?!? dont you get it?? you're in the exact same situation right THIS SECOND now that i'm here on your doorstep. are you rejecting Christ like this man is??

  maybe the cover shouldve looked like this:

  would that have made the intended message clearer?

  mox
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  23

  Flood and bristlecone pine

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i mentioned that the dc in our area featured a talk where the speaker, as an illustration of endurance, mentioned methusaleh, the bristlecone pine that had lived for 4700+ years.

  i asked here for some possible explanations of this that allow for the wt flood dating.

  i had assumed that the standard response would be that the dating of the tree was wrong, that the rings had gotten doubled a few times or something.

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  Moxy

  thanks nic. ive read up on a _lot_ of this during my 'research period' and i mentioned the overlapping extensions to. but im trying to play devils advocate now - i want to now how plausible the pines living underwater is or isnt. this is really the first time ive heard this suggestion.

  mox
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  23

  Flood and bristlecone pine

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i mentioned that the dc in our area featured a talk where the speaker, as an illustration of endurance, mentioned methusaleh, the bristlecone pine that had lived for 4700+ years.

  i asked here for some possible explanations of this that allow for the wt flood dating.

  i had assumed that the standard response would be that the dating of the tree was wrong, that the rings had gotten doubled a few times or something.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Moxy

  i mentioned that the DC in our area featured a talk where the speaker, as an illustration of endurance, mentioned Methusaleh, the bristlecone pine that had lived for 4700+ years. i asked here for some possible explanations of this that allow for the WT flood dating. i had assumed that the standard response would be that the dating of the tree was wrong, that the rings had gotten doubled a few times or something. i dont think i received any further insight from anyone.

  well, when time came for me to defend my disbelief, i mentioned this tree and its age as a problem for a literal genesis.

  'what's the problem?' i was asked.

  'well, that its 4770 some years old.'

  'so, what's the problem? that it survived the flood.'

  me, a little incredulous, 'uhhh yes. yes. are you suggesting that it lived underwater for a year?'

  'why not?'

  'because the rings show the relative climate for each year, the relative amount of sunlight and growth. living underwater with no sunlight for a year should leave a mark, not to mention the effect on climate in the succeeding years.'

  'hmm... well i dont think the effect on climate would be all that great that it should be noticable. those trees can survive all kinds of things, even fire.'

  well, so anyways this is the first ive heard the suggestion made seriously that all these trees lived happily underwater for a year with no signs of stunted growth. i dont want to look dogmatic. im sure that a tree _could_ survive underwater for some period of time but i dont know much more on the subject. can anyone (alanf maybe?) point me somewhere for further research?

  thanks in advance.

  mox