Posts by morrisamb

22

Can someone post the lastest QFR in the july WT

by JT in

jw
friends

thanks.

i understand it deals with the talaban requiring women to cover thier heads when praying opps i meant the wt not the talaban smile.

james

morrisamb

Even when I was super-believer, and I was, let me tell you...this one I always had a problem with.
In all the world of Witnesses, who gets treated worse? Men, women or children.
Women, no need to cover your head if you reply.

17

:: how witnesses abuse their children::

by Incense_and_Peppermints in

(in addition to the pedophelia, of course).

these comments are all based on the sum of my and others experiences as one of jehovah's wtnesses:.

this system of things was going to end soon anyway!

morrisamb

God, does your story bring back memories. When you are there, such things seem normal. When you are here, it is horrifying. You are a survivor! You have a strong grasp of the dynamics of the control which is so important in setting yourself free.
Thanks for sharing your story!

13

Toronto People (and whoever else)

by Naeblis in

jw
friends

what do you guys think of a wonderland trip this year??

could be fun.

booya.

morrisamb

Hi Naeb, I've lived 2 hours from that place as long as its existed and I still haven't been there! Let's see..what do I want to do more...visit this amusement park or finally meet a real live X-Witness with a sense of humour as twisted as yours?

New interview about Father's Touch

by morrisamb in

june 13, 2002 scene magazine, london, canada .

dishing with donalds: kidstuff - not!.

by patricia black.

morrisamb

June 13, 2002 SCENE MAGAZINE, London, Canada
Dishing with Donalds: Kidstuff - not!

By Patricia Black

Anticipating publication of his autobiographical book, Father’s Touch, I dished with Donald. Never able to go to McDonald’s as a kid, Donald chose it as a fun place to be “dished.”

I asked if we could film there, but it's too much red tape! Harris Park is easier.

You were largely responsible for your mother’s and siblings’ lives, as well as trying to deal with all your own “stuff,” some of which was very heavy. Do you feel that you can make up for your lost childhood now?

As I write in my book, “One of my childhoods was happy.” I wouldn’t say the same about my adolescence when the shit hit the fan and I was left to pick up the pieces. I was an adult child. But now I am a child-like adult. I’ve come full circle.

Your very supportive partner, Maurice, took the journey back with you to the places where your childhood nightmares took place. The way you have used this journey in the book reminds me of one of those progressive dinners where you start out at one house for the first course and go from house to house for each course, leading up to dessert. How does that analogy strike you?

Like My Dinner With Andre, except one of us knew for the most part where the story was going and the other silently listened. Oh yeah, Maurice did want to stop for some chicken . . . .

D’Haene--that’s a Belgian name. In Father’s Touch, you refer to yourself as “Thinking Donald, Feeling Donald and Other Donald.” In another way, you are Donalds plural: actor Donald, writer Donald, and cleaner Donald. How have you arrived at 41 seemingly with it “altogether,” and so positive and upbeat, given the abuse, the numerous moves and the strict Jehovah’s Witness upbringing?

There certainly is more than one Donald in terms of what fills a 24-hour day. By keeping busy with a variety of positive ventures, I have escaped my past to a great extent. This is intentional.

Some might be squeamish about reading Father’s Touch. I was gripped by it. The advance copies have received incredibly positive responses from all over the world, including Belgium. How could you write with such humour and courage?

My gift is story telling. I never focus on gruesome details. I’d rather the reader use his own imagination. Rather Hitchcockian I know - a favourite movie director of my youth.

Are the black and white movie reels you describe in the book still running in your head any or much of the time?

I’d rather talk about the commercials.

You have written that you could never cry? Can you cry now?

Are you kidding? When our beloved Siamese cat, Max, passed away a month ago, we’re talking Niagara Falls. I cry when I hear of a parent losing a child, untimely deaths, cruelty to animals, rape of women and children. I consider myself normal in this regard. On second thought, I do cry when I watch Touched By An Angel.

Since it’s very likely you are going to make money with Father’s, how will your life change?

I don’t think about that much, but cleaning a few less toilets would be nice.

Your web site (www.fatherstouch.com) has had about 5000 hits from every continent in the world. Donalds - when can I get my hands on a copy of Father’s Touch?

Although the worldwide release won’t be until later this summer, orders may be placed at Oxford Book Store (London) or through the internet: www.pdbookstore.com

You have a role in London Community Players’ upcoming production. And you’re going to audition for The Wizard of Oz for the Grand Theatre 2002 season?

Moon Over Buffalo (Palace Theatre, June 20-29; 672-8800), a great farce that debuted on Broadway with Carol Burnett in the lead. No, I didn’t get her role . . . . As for The Wizard of Oz, talk about life coming full circle. I loved that movie!!! I even refer in a twisted sort of way to it in my book. Remember? Unfortunately I didn’t have to click my heels. I kept waiting for a tornado, so a house would fall on me! There was no place like home alright!!!

Thanks so much for sharing your last dish with me. Best of luck--you deserve it! And speaking of deserving, what is your favourite dessert - Belgian Waffles?

Watch DISHing with Donald on daytime on Rogers Television, June 17

10

An Elder visited my Witness mother and said...

by morrisamb in

my mother felt the need to discuss the dateline episode.

the elder said he had not seen it but heard about it.

he said, "of course, sexual abuse is a crime.

morrisamb

My Mother felt the need to discuss the Dateline episode. The Elder said he had not seen it but heard about it. He said, "Of course, sexual abuse is a crime." Mother said he was very sympathetic. "We don't know enough about this subject. "They'll probably look into these [Dateline] cases." he continued. "Wolves do come in the congregation in sheeps' clothing." And, "We can't imagine what your children went through."
Mom said, "He did make one good point. Later in the conversation, he said, 'Why is it that this comes out after the Catholic Church abuse?"

I said to Mom. "I'm glad they were sympathetic, but that's a lame point. Who cares why the truth comes out as long as it comes out?"

Nevertheless, they listened to her say things like, "You know what the Elders told my kids; you have to obey your father because he is head of the house." She said, they were speechless at that one.

I think there are many who will be shocked by the truth. All the more reason they need to hear it.

14

Michael Jackson is ....

by morrisamb in

is michael jackson disfellowshipped?.

an elder visited my witness mother earlier this week and told her, "he is definitely disfellowshipped?

" now it wouldn't surpise me but i've never seen this confirmed anywhere.

morrisamb

I totally believe that. I wasn't disf. But 10 years after I stopped assoiciating I wrote a published article on how I felt like a caged bird that could finally sing...I have never written one word about having been a Jehovah's Witness until my book...it was about the fact that I was gay.

Well, within 24 hours I got a call from an Elder (who had been good to me years earlier..I had not seen or spoken to him in 10 years).
"Does this call have to do with the article that was in the paper?" I asked.
"Yes. We would like you to come in and meet with us?"
"Why? I haven't been a Witness for 10 years."
"You are still considered a member of this congregation?"
"But I live in London?"
"Why don't you come in an discuss this?"
"Nope."
"Then you're saying you want to dissassociate yourself."
"I never said no such thing."
"Then come in and meet with us."
"No, I'm not. So you are dissassociating yourself."
"You know what, do whatever you have to. Bye."

And so my Mother said I was dissassociated that week. Whatever!

24

ORG. BOOK CANCELLED TWO WITNESS RULE!

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

this is a little long, but i think you will find it interesting!!!.

the book "organized to accomplish our ministry" (1989) written by the watchtower society has this to say about matthew 18:15-17 starting on page 142:.

"when giving counsel, jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolving problems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that may arise between fellow christians......... .

morrisamb

I knew there was a reason why I haven't read Witness literature in 17 years!

These quotes show an unbelievable lack of insight into the nature of the crime of sexual abuse. You'd think this was some sin of stealing a kid's ice cream and promising not to do it again:

"What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him ..[that]..he should personally approach the accused about the matter."

Say what? Would someone who survived a murder attempt be expected to personally approach the accused to lay the accusation. Unbelievable. Psych 101: even an adult survivor often displays the fear and trauma of their childhood experience when in the presense of ANYONE who REMINDS them of their perpetrator.

"Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be!"

Holy pollyanna! A molester needs to face up to his actions. I don't think disclosure is the proper time for a group hug!

"If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person."

Okay, then suggest to the victim possibilities. ie. here are some agencies that could help you: the police, social services, crisis hotline, and so on.

"Even if more than one person "remembers" abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence."

Lordy, lord. What is the chances that two victims "recalled" an incident of abuse about the same person? Once again, if you want to wash your hands of this, why not suggest calling the police?

44

Dateline Aftermath

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

the result of the airing of the dateline program has been very positive.

dateline program will no doubt air again in reruns and may get further coverage soon.

there have been many mixed emotions as a result of this program.

morrisamb

Thank you for verifying that Mike Musto...If in fact those Elders were removed from their position, it's kinda of interesting it was because of "truth" spoken by supposed "apostates".
Perhaps we are seeing a redefining of the word apostate...a(o)posing-state rules that are unchristian,unethical and foster evil.

60

What's the one thing you miss about the WTS?

by Naeblis in

jw
friends

there are times when ilook back fondly on my days in the witnesses, especially when i think on the congregation get togethers we would have every once in awhile (not too often) people from our hall and sometimes others would show up (not too many) and good times were had by all.

this is how the schedule usually went.. 8pm: arrive at the community centre.

8:05pm: scope the room.

morrisamb

Hey Naeb, you definitely had a very different kinda get-to-gether than I did in sticksville Aylmer...one time they played "Wasn't It A Party?" by the Rovers and my sister and I were the only ones dancing in the whole school gynasium. An unchristian song and all.
It was like the devil was dancing with his lady..the cold stares we got!
Guess I did have more guts than I thought I did.

Another time I asked an Elder's wife to dance, and she said, "I never dance with anyone but my husband."

Nope don't miss those times...I did have some great laughs with the older sisters in service. They were the ones with the true party spirit!

43

Congregation Letter 5-24-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

christian congregation.

of jehovah's witnesses.

2528 route 22 patterson ny 12563-2237 phone (845) 306 1100 .

morrisamb

quote: We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where required by Law to do so, even where there is only one witness. (Romans 13:1) in any case, the elders know that if the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.----Galatians 6:5.

There ARE parts of this letter that are positive. But there's something missing. In my gut, I know it, and you know it. Individual victims are inconsequential. No apology for individual Elders' mistakes.
I mean, an Elder in our case told me point blank in '81 "If we are asked in court why we didn't report these sexual acts [a '73 hearing], we will state the truth, we didn't know it was against the law." Really?
And why is a history of inadequate responses to rape and sexual abuse wiped out with new light? Did they have God's direction when they made the blunders? Isn't that a new way of passing the buck? 'We are not responsible for the past mistakes because we didn't have the new light.'
I really think the greater society, the world, is educating religious groups...from Catholics to the Witnesses.
They need to stop being Clinton-esque. Or perhaps this year, it's: they need to stop being Gary Condit-ish! Smiling for the cameras; never acknowledging personal behaviour/responsiblility not only is insensitive to the victim (s) and their family (ies), it can destroy the public's trust.

Here's a time capsul from my book...before the new light:

Chapter 14

............

How could we know better? The Elders dealt with our problems internally because their perspective was focused on not being a part of the ungodly world.

Separating church and state led to an unspoken taboo against interference and also a desire to stay innocent.... In general, though, if someone broke the law of the land, the Elders encouraged the individual to initiate the unwieldy process of settling accounts with the appropriate law enforcement officials. It appears there was a double standard in our case.... Why had the Elders not encouraged Daniel D’Haene to go to the police? Was not incest also a serious crime?

.....We were not seen as Daniel’s victims. We were witnesses and participants in a series of sinful acts. More importantly, we were alive—what did we have to complain about? Such was the depth of ignorance of sexual abuse within the Witness society in 1973.

Yet Elder Surin [name changed] wasn’t completely naïve. He told me, “I warned my wife to keep our children away from your father.”

Did the adult players in this fiasco act out of self-interest? I was a child. What did I know? I wished someone would have taken us away from my father, but I did not understand the legalities of the situation. Outside the looking glass that was my childhood, one could ask why Mother had not taken action to remove us. Were we asking more of the Elders than of her? Perhaps. But Judgment Day seemed far off. Was it so wrong to look to the shepherds of the flock to be our immediate saviors? The Elders were well-educated. Mother was not. Who had more responsibility to act upon the knowledge given them?

I know that I associated disclosure with hurtful consequences, unfair punishment. These experiences only encouraged my separation from reality. I was a body without a voice, programmed to be silent, to feel nothing. There was no acknowledgement of my worth. In fact, my public image was negative by association. I was my father’s child. I had hardly begun my life and already the strikes against me were building. Worst of all, a condescending attitude from certain ministers—God’s chosen Elders —fed the feeling that a negative energy was coming to us in an indirect way from God. One traveling Witness overseer told me that from the moment he heard of our being sexually abused, he vowed never to touch another glass or cup in the Aylmer Kingdom Hall—because it was tainted by, “your father’s touch.”

He was truly horrified by our experience. He always expressed genuine caring for my family—and chose a symbolic act that would signify his personal protest to the abuse, yet he never made an overt gesture of help. He never said, “Get out! Call the police or I will!” His revelation was like an abuse victim of a Catholic priest receiving a get-well card from the Pope. Too little—too late.

My family had been conditioned as Witnesses to view the world as separate. “We are in the world but not of the world” was an oft-quoted teaching. Hence, problems within the Witness organization were handled internally, within a small congregation, by each local body of Elders. I did not understand the Elder’s judgment, but I certainly never questioned their decisions publicly.

After Father was disfellowshipped in 1973, members of our faith did not associate with him or visit us when he was home. At least their children didn’t have to play The Game with him.

[I wonder if we]... no longer have to listen to Papa self-righteously preach to visitors.

And once, just once I heard from my father’s lips: “We have to stop.” Even at twelve years old, Thinking Donald found that laughable. “We” have to stop?

The implication was that we had been consensual sexual partners. His excommunication had him sufficiently worried that he decided to lie low for a while, but Other Donald knew he would be back.