Posts by braincleaned

51

Categories of Former Jehovah's Witnesses

by neverendingjourney in

jw
friends

i was never disfellowshipped, but it's been about 10 years since i was an active jw.

i've made an occasional meeting or half-day at an assembly here or there, strictly at the behest of family (maybe once a year), but i'm completely disconnected.

more importantly, mentally i'm 100% free.. we all have a tendency to project our views and beliefs onto others, and tending to believe that other former jws share our views is no different.

braincleaned

I'm in category 4, turned atheist. My study of the Bible turned me atheist before I realized the amout of mind-controlling BS the WTS threw at the rank & file.
All of it cost me my family, and had a lot to do with my 2 heart attacks. I still hurt. Not just from the Borg, but from the toxic fairy tales of the Bible.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

I was expecting more arguments against my OP.

Is it me, or do I sense that atheism may be a bit of an anoyance here?

13

Sanctify Gods name

by Crazyguy in

ok so thats what jesus said we must do, so the question at hand is, does going around the world telling people that gods name is jehovah does this really sanctify his name, really????

so if i went around my town and told every one that satans name is lucifer will this make satan holy?

is this what jesus was taking about jw's, think about it.

braincleaned

Good point.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

Ucantnome, of course! Belief one way or another is not a matter of intellegence as much as it is a matter of emotion.

I know many intellegent people that are believers. MANY. However, in my experience I have found their belief to be rather deeply rooted emotionally.
I may be wrong... but that is what I have personally experienced, and seen around me.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

My dear Tec, I fear the second guy is not faith in my illustration. Faith is along with religion, the first guy.
The second guy is a seeker of evidence and logic. Reason over hope.

I think (hope) that it was pretty clear.

However, you can interpret the illustration as you feel best for you. I just wanted to make sure of my intent.
As you know, I'm no friend of Jesus... but I respect those who disagree.
;)

97

Unconfirmed 2014 Year Book Numbers - Peak Pubs, Baptized, Hrs, Reg Pio & Studies

by OwnAccord in

jw
friends

i bethelite sent this email out - can't really give out names.

we wrote these figures as quickly as possible, but could not keep up 100%).

you get to check these figures out when you get your 2014 yearbook.

braincleaned

2.4% more victims?

I think I wanna curl up and cry.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

Absolutely KateWild. Oh, could you refer me to the illustration, and what scientist gave it? Here I thought I was being original! LOL!

Any group like the WTS that demonizes 'outside' knowledge to control information should be exposed as frauds.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

I don't know about the cat in the box thing — but I can tell you that in my illustration, the second guy would simply keep his stand if the door was open... and tell me that I just lack faith for not "seeing" the elephant.

Illustrations have their limits — but this one is thought out and has worked for a while. It makes a simple point.
I hope we can avoid the red herring of deconstructing the illustration to avoid the point I am making.
We'll see... lol!

As for those who don't care— this post is not for them.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

braincleaned

Whatever our convictions are, we all have ONE thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.
We have knowledge by proxy… we didn't find things out all by ourselves. We let trusted sources talk for us.

Belief is not something that you choose. If there is an elephant in my room and I see it, I don't "choose" to believe it's there. But if there is no elephant, I do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either. Belief is the most honest part of our psyche. Again — belief is NOT a choice.

However, choosing the sources we trust IS a choice.

Staying with the pachydermic illustration, lets say I'm outside of my room and the door closed. Two men are guarding the door and the first one says "There is an elephant in your room."
The second one says "Not true, there is NO elephant in your room."

This is where choice really kicks in.
Who do I 'believe'?

— The first guy says all you have to do is trust him. He is an elephant expert, and there is no need to question him.
— The second guy says that he is a researcher, and that there in no evidence of an elephant in my room — proof is as simple as opening the door to check inside!

Religion is the first guy. Faith. Trust. No need for hard evidence, the "guy" says he's an expert. No questioning allowed.
Science is the second guy. Logic. Evidence. YOU are going to decide by questioning/opening the door.

The JWs, more than most other religions, have perfected the cruel delusion by punishing the ones that dare question the first guy (WTS). But make no mistake, every religion has a form of bigotry against the second guy.

What AMAZES me is how so many deny evolution based on a definition of evolution given by the very sources that deny it!!!
Reading the Watchtower on Evolution is like reading about the flaws of Pepsi from a Coca~Cola magazine!

Wake up people! The JW religion is not the root of all problems. The issue goes much deeper. It's about the belief of an all-loving and powerful god that created a universe that is obviously not loving at all.
The stars and planets that collide and explode to oblivion; the cruel "cycle of life" in wildlife — life violently feeding from weaker life; sickness; the fact that 98% of known species are now extinct; natural catastrophes… all witness to a rough natural and relative order — not the smart and loving creation of the god of biblical folklore.

My favorite quote from Bertrand Russell is this one:
(after being asked "Do you think there’s a practical reason for having a religious belief?")

"Well, there can’t be a practical reason for believing what isn’t true. That’s quite... at least, I rule it out as impossible. Either the thing is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, you should believe it, and if it isn’t, you shouldn’t. And if you can’t find out whether it’s true or whether it isn’t, you should suspend judgment. But you can’t... it seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it’s useful, and not because you think it’s true."

What say you?

44

Maybe I'm the bad guy after all

by braincleaned in

maybe i'm the bad guy after all.

my mom and sis love me and still talk to me, although i'm clearly an apostate.

their loophole?

braincleaned

I agree... need a break. My personal issues are clouding my judgement... Thanks.