Posts by ScenicViewer

56

Southern California USA Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses On High Alert

by JW GoneBad in

circuit overseers, elders, ministerial servants, pioneers and rank & file are stressed out over an ex-jw (kevin) who has visited nearly 20 congregations (orange county) and has high-jacked the opening prayers and done some effective witnessing before he is escorted to the back door.

and everything is caught on video!.

kevin is also visiting numerous jw cart locations from the los angeles area to orange county and giving a most effective wiitness at each location and they're all on video.

ScenicViewer

I noticed that in the videos I watched, the kingdom halls he visited were practically empty.

I noticed the empty seats too. It appears that meeting attendance is not so good these days.

18

The org and going beyond what is written

by CitizenofEarth in

hello there.. my father just claimed that the good thing about being a witness was how they just let the bible interpret itself.

now i know the irony in this statement, but i dont know what to show him that he just cant discard with some ignorant excuse.

any ideas?

ScenicViewer

Baptizing children.

Watchtower has published articles detailing the baptism of children as young as 6 years old. Two examples..

(Baptized at 6)
In the summer of 1946, I was baptized at the international convention in Cleveland, Ohio. Although I was only six years of age, I was determined to fulfill my dedication to Jehovah. That summer I served as a pioneer for the first time. I remember one morning placing 40 magazines with people seated at The Plaza in San Diego, California. My being tiny and talkative had a lot to do with it, I’m sure. (W 3-1-1992, p27. Pursuing a Goal Set at Six Years of Age, life story of Sandra Cowan)

(Baptized at 8)
"In Bonaire, six-year-old Renzo was invited to the Kingdom Hall and enjoyed it very much. A Bible study was started with him, and from then on he refused to go to the Catholic church....Subsequently, Renzo’s father and mother along with one of Renzo’s Bible students were baptized. Renzo, now eight years old, was baptized at a circuit assembly in Bonaire." (Year Book 2002, p. 110 Curaçao)

Only adults were baptized in the Bible. Even Jesus himself, who was no doubt much more advanced than normal 12 year olds and was discussing scripture with the priests, was not baptized until he reached adulthood. When he was 12 the Bible says - "47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers." (Luke 21:47)

Watchtower has continually said that 30 was the age of manhood in that society, which was Jesus' age at the time of his baptism.

Baptizing small children is a clear example of "going beyond what is written."

As a side point, when those baptized children are misbehaving in some way they are treated as adults in judicial situations.

"When a baptized minor becomes involved in wrongdoing that threatens the cleanness of the congregation, the assigned committee should meet with such individual just as they would with any other member of the congregation" (Pay Attention to Yourself and to All the Flock, p. 98)

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

ScenicViewer

And don't forget the 6 month Bible study program. If Bible students didn't come in after a 6 month study, the Society said drop them. Why? Because "the urgency of the times in which we live demands it."

(W 5-15-69 p312, Article: Have You Been Studying For Six Months?)
In view of the short time left in which to do their work, Jehovah’s witnesses do not continue to study the Bible with any who fail to respond to its urgent message within six months. The nearness of this system’s end compels them to use their time in the most effective way possible. So they feel obligated to spend their time calling on someone else who might respond by attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall and by speaking to others about the Bible truths learned. Thus it may be that if you have not as yet responded by even becoming a regular attender at some of the congregation meetings, the one who is studying the Bible with you may cancel that study arrangement in order to give his time to someone else. This arrangement is not meant to be harsh, but the urgency of the times in which we live demands it. There are millions of persons who need spiritual help and God’s servants want to reach all they possibly can.

(W 6-1-1969 p346, Article: They Are Acting On What They Are Learning)
“SIX months! What if the end of this system comes in three?” This is what a father of four small children in Florida seriously asked when Jehovah’s witnesses told him about their free six-month home Bible-study course. This man’s wife had obtained from them the book The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life. Both he and his wife had been up late each night examining its contents.

"...the urgency of the times in which we live demands it." That was well over 40 years ago.

Question to Watchtower: How urgent were the times really?

This reminds me of an expression I once heard a salesman use - Turn 'em and Burn 'em. I suppose that meant to get all you could from one customer then move to the next, which is very similar to how Watchtower treats people.

Although some Witnesses took it upon themselves to study with a student for longer than 6 months, the Organization said there wasn't time. Why? The above information was published in 1969, so what important date was just around the corner from then? 1975 of course.

The 6 month Bible study program was abandoned soon after the failure of 1975.

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

ScenicViewer

He then said that Adam was going to be tempted by bestiality for lack of a mate for decades. "Will Jehovah allow Adam to be tempted into bestiality? NOOOOH brothers and sisters Jehovah won't allow that." he said in his sing-song voice. (Village Idiot)

Wow! I had never heard that type of reasoning to shorten the time between Adam's creation and Eve's creation before. Thanks for posting that. It sounds just like the kind of thing Fred Franz would say.

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

ScenicViewer

It appears to me that everything they are doing is total desperation. (Finally Left)

Completely true, and this video opens my eyes to just how big a problem 1975 must be, even at this point in the Organization's history. I thought it was pretty much over and done with since most of that generation of Witnesses has passed.

But now we have the internet! The newer generations of Witnesses must be learning about 1975 from online research and it's gotten big enough that the Organization feels it needs to be addressed, otherwise it's just opening an old wound.

We can hope the video backfires big time. (Steve2)

And it likely will. Going here is dangerous for the Organization, and it may well only compound the problems with their "Armageddon is just around the corner" credibility.

There was a time when the Organization could get away with blaming someone else for it's false prophecy, mainly the followers, by saying "Some in those days misunderstood," or "Some back then were overzealous." How would anyone know about the original predictions for 1914 or 1925 unless they went back and read the literature from that time, which almost no one ever did. Instead people just believed what modern Witnesses told them.

However, the internet is a big game changer for Watchtower because the past can not be so easily hidden - information is at your fingertips. Plus there are still survivors from the 1975 time period - many of us here - who are happy to talk about it and can point to chapter and verse from the Society's literature to show exactly what Watchtower said, as seen by the many quotes already posted in this thread.

My feeling about the video is that they are trying to bury something (1975) that will rise back up to bite them even harder than it already has.

Tough times for Watchtower, and it's about time.

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

ScenicViewer

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?...Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).

Somehow, if you predict a false date you are a false prophet - unless you are Jehovah's Witnesses. Only in the Watchtower world!

162

2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure

by pale.emperor in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.

no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.

instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .

ScenicViewer

"I was dedicated to Jehovah, not a date." (From the video @ 2:17)

Why would anyone who is really dedicated to Jehovah continue to following an organization that is all about dates, always has been, and has proven itself to be a false prophet over and over again?

41

May 15, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Regular Pioneers

by wifibandit in

may 15, 2017 to all bodies of elders re: regular pioneers.

uk version.

ScenicViewer

This arrangement is not a provision to allow an individual to care for sick relatives...

Helping people in need is one of the cornerstones and most honorable pursuits in Christianity. It takes a spiritual person to voluntarily look after others who are incapable of taking care of themselves. But in the Watchtower world it isn't permitted if you want to remain a pioneer - only time spent preaching the Watchtower message counts, and is the main marker of spirituality.

Looking at this from a distance now, it is clear just how perverted the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is.

65

Lawsuit Settlement Amounts

by Richard Oliver in

i have a legitimate question and i am not trying to start a fight.

i keep reading that there were 6 child abuse lawsuits that settled for 13 million dollars.

how do people like barbara anderson or jwsurvey or jwfacts come up with this number?

ScenicViewer

The guy [Richard Oliver] is trying to find the facts.

No he isn't, he is only trying to defend Watchtower. RO will dole out just enough fact to twist it in Watchtower's favor, but the real facts - the whole truth - means nothing to him.

65

Lawsuit Settlement Amounts

by Richard Oliver in

i have a legitimate question and i am not trying to start a fight.

i keep reading that there were 6 child abuse lawsuits that settled for 13 million dollars.

how do people like barbara anderson or jwsurvey or jwfacts come up with this number?

ScenicViewer

The only statement that says estimate ScenicViewer is the statement by SilentLambs for the Fessler Case.

Again Richard Oliver has avoided the question which is "Where did anyone claim that a settlement amount is an "absolute fact," which is the term he used but could not substantiate.

I see that RO is now off the site. At least he won't be able to avoid the question again, which is part of his method of argument, and readers, including lurkers, won't be subjected to his flawed and misleading methods of reasoning that are simply designed to support an abusive religious organization, the Watchtower Society.