The org and going beyond what is written

by CitizenofEarth 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • CitizenofEarth

    Hello there.

    My father just claimed that the good thing about being a witness was how they just let the bible interpret itself. Now i know the irony in this statement, but i dont know what to show him that he just cant discard with some ignorant excuse. Any ideas? An example of the Org blatantly going beyond what is written would be the best in the whole wide world right now.

    Thanks to you all in advance.

  • Chook

    Show your dear dad the new convention video about 1975 then show him the recordings from a link about how they really did tell people they should sell their homes and leave jobs.

  • CitizenofEarth
    Show your dear dad the new convention video about 1975 then show him the recordings from a link about how they really did tell people they should sell their homes and leave jobs.

    That is a great idea! Where do i find all these things. I mean from sources that he wouldnt call apostate lies?

  • Londo111

    Going beyond what it written...where would we start?


    Turning in field service time.

    Literature placement.

    Ect, ect...

    Heck, even the words Governing Body and Organization is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

  • Chook

    You could remind your dad that JWs once couldn't do blood factions, organ transplants.

  • waton

    ask him to read Math 24:34 and confirm with him, that all written in Math: 24 and 25 ( the GT, goat judgement , Armageddon) ,according to Jesus in verse 34, will occur, before this generation will pass away. Then ask him when the anointed generation will pass away to heaven, according to wt,.... before the Gt or after Armageddon. ?

    answer, wt: before. Jesus: after

    wt goes beyond or rather short of the bible "prophetic generation genealogy" wt not ingenious. can not even read the bible right, when it counts.

  • Perry

    Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. Mt. 26: 27b & 28 (NWT)

    Rev. 7 - After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues... And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

    Jesus said that the New Covenant was for the forgiveness of sins. Yet, the Watchtower says that Salvation comes from having a good-standing with the Watchtower organization. How does the average JW get their sins forgiven if they personally reject the New Covenant at each Lord's Supper?

    Even though the Great Crowd (Tribulation Believers) are headed for life on earth during the Millennium Reign, they too are declared righteous by the Blood Covenant of the Lamb:

    Rev. 22: 14 NWT - Happy are those who wash their robes, so that they may have authority to go to the trees of life and that they may gain entrance into the city through its gates.

    The Watchtower has gone far beyond the scriptures in preaching a different salvation than the one offered in the Blood Covenant. Regardless of our destination, all are declared righteous the same way. "There is only ONE MEDIATOR, between God and men". And what does he Mediate?

    "he is a mediator of a new covenant" - Hebrews 9: 15 NWT

    Secondly, the Watchtower teaches that we are being judged now, by how we respond to the teachings and publications of the Watchtower.

    The bible teaches the opposite: that we will be judged after we die.

    How will the average JW avoid Judgment if the object of their faith is in religion and men and not the Blood Covering of the New Covenant?

    Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins. Mt. 26: 27b & 28 (NWT)
  • carla


    Won't a jw use the overlapping generation thing to answer that?

  • Vanderhoven7

    Is it biblical or beyond what is biblical to say......

      1. Is it biblical to say that the 144,000 were numerically complete in 1935 (No we don't believe that anymore). But you taught that for over 70 years...(so speculation?)

      "Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935." Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19

    2. Is it biblical to say that in 1935 the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 had already begun forming. (???)

    How do you know this? Is 1935 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed?

    The Watchtower had expressed the hope that a convention scheduled for May 30 to June 3, 1935, in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., would be “a real comfort and benefit” to those pictured by Jehonadab. And that it proved to be! In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, J. F. Rutherford ... declared: “Behold! The great multitude!” There was a hush, followed by loud cheering.”The Watchtower May 1, 2001 pp.14-15 “Behold! The Great Crowd

    3. Is it biblical to say that the sounding of the 7 trumpets introduced in Revelation 8 got underway at a Bible Student convention in Cedar Point, Ohio in 1922? (???)

      “When the sounding of the seven trumpets got under way in 1922, the Bible Student convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, (Rev.8:7) featured a talk by the president of the Watchtower Society, J. F Rutherford, based on the scripture, ”The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand. p. 172

    4. Is it biblical to say that the apostle Peter went to heaven in the spring of 1918?

    Is 1918 a biblical date? How do you know this?

    In 1918 he (the apostle Peter) was resurrected to the heavens along with the other faithful members of Christ’s congregation who had died prior to that time.” WT Feb. 15, 1966 p. 123 Does Peter Now Use the Keys of the Kingdom?

    5. Is it biblical to say that Jesus concluded an investigative judgment in 1918 and as a result rejected every church on earth with the exception of your organization? (???)

    How do you know this? Is this in the Bible?

      “When Jesus came to God’s spiritual temple in 1918 for the purpose of judging men, Christendom was rejected.The Watchtower, August 1, 1960, p. 462

    6. Is it biblical to say that Jesus appointed a Faithful and Discrete Slave in Brooklyn New York in 1919? (???)

    How do you know this? Is this in the Bible? What were the names of those selected ones? On what grounds were they selected? Do you know what the Bible Students were teaching and practicing in 1919?

    “On arriving’ to inspect the ‘slave’ in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal [the Watchtower] and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or ‘slave,’ and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.”Watchtower 2007 Apr 1 p.22

  • Vanderhoven7

      <<That is a great idea! Where do i find all these things. I mean from sources that he wouldnt call apostate lies?>>

      You might want to ask your Dad the following questions

    1. How well do you know your organization's history regarding 1975?

    2. Do you know why JWs were looking forward to 1975?

    "One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows , neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. The Watchtower, August 15, 1968 “Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?”

    “Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975?, and the long-looked-for-thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly....It may involve only a difference in of weeks or months, not years.” The Watchtower, August 15, 1968 p.499 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

    3. Do you know why JWs were commended for selling their homes in the early 70s?

    "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?

    4. Do you know why JWs were told that was foolish to plan for a career in 1968/69?

    "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling.. True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?" Awake May 22 1969 p.15

    5. Do you know who was to blame for all the hype over 1975?

    "If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." The Watchtower, July 15, 1976,

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